5 ms·

Every student's case mentioned made it seem like the goal of tutoring is for the student to acquire elite status and prestige by going to highly selective schoo

Every student's case mentioned made it seem like the goal of tutoring is for the student to acquire elite status and prestige by going to highly selective schools through the planning by their neurotic parents. The material learned was less relevant. I want to teach my students how to follow their passions, how to strive for the life they want, rather than for hollow symbols of success. It seems like hollow symbols of success are what the parents and institutions have agreed to create though. The number of schools and slots for students has apparently not changed much but the number of students across the globe who are competing for slots in a few, elite western schools has gone up enormously. That drives the value of the degree up through scarcity which seems to be what people want for their children, is ways to be more elite than their peers. It's probably not surprising then that bribery happens. The schools aren't really selling an education anymore and the parents aren't really looking for one either.

ryandrake 5y ago
Well, elite jobs typically go to people who can show these hollow symbols of success, so as long as that's true, there will be demand for "elite status" and "prestige". The elite jobs are not hiring for what material was learned--they're hiring based on your membership in the club and your pedigree. Fix the demand for hollow symbols and maybe they become less important. Good luck getting Goldman and McKinsey to stop looking for Harvard on resumes though.
sandworm101 5y ago
I attended an "elite" boys school back in the 1990s. It was a doctor and lawyer factory. Everyone went to university and most got advanced degrees. But I talked to a teacher there recently. The students are now so wealthy that they are hard to motivate. Doctors have to touch sick people. Lawyers have to go work in an office. The students at my old school today don't dream of success. They all pass, they all do well, but they aren't performing like they used to. They know they will all go work for daddy's real estate/banking firm. Why bother even trying? My old school is now no longer the top in the country, slipping to 4th last time I looked. The student body is smart, but simply doesn't try as hard at anything anymore. I don't blame them.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  although genuine, this analysis is sort of 2D cutout characterization, which feeds class stereotypes in another way.. "When I was in school, I had to walk 2 miles every day, uphill both ways! .. you people are less motivated" sort of applies Modern life has the number of human signals daily, increased to stratospheric levels.. this is new, very new. It is not clear how intelligent, social people are changing under this communications environment. other points omitted for the sake of brevity, but not the whole story here..
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Perhaps bank accounts, transactions, credit reports, grades, should be public information, physical measurements, medical history, etc should be public information. That way we, we do not have to play these signaling games and can focus resources elsewhere.
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    The fact that an experience is stereotypical doesn't meant it is also inaccurate. Students today do not have it easier. They are working less hard at school because they need to work harder in other areas. Grades don't matter. Everyone gets strait-As so as long as you meat that standard there is little point in trying harder. Even Going to a good school matters less and less. The things kids have to do today are very different than I faced. For me, grades were enough. For today's kids grades are only the starting point. For instance, social media presence is now very important. I never had to deal with that when I was applying to universities.
    - hytdstd 5y ago
      > For today's kids grades are only the starting point. For instance, social media presence is now very important. Care to elaborate on this?
      - sandworm101 5y ago
        “I was speechless when a school official asked me about all the clubbing and party pictures I posted on my Facebook Account. In hindsight, I think I got rejected from that school because they might have thought I will do the same once I join school." https://ischoolconnect.com/blog/effect-of-social-media-on-college-admissions/ https://ischoolconnect.com/blog/effect-of-social-media-on-co... "According to a 2017 survey administered by the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, 11% of respondents said they "denied admission based on social media content" and another 7% rescinded offers for the same reason." https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2019-08-22/why-colleges-look-at-students-social-media-accounts https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2019... "According to the 364 colleges across the United States we recently spoke with, 25 percent tell us that they have visited an applicant’s social media page, such as Facebook, Instagram or Twitter to learn more about them*." https://www.kaptest.com/study/pre-college/college-admission-the-complete-guide-to-social-media/ https://www.kaptest.com/study/pre-college/college-admission-...

ryandrake 5y ago

Well, elite jobs typically go to people who can show these hollow symbols of success, so as long as that's true, there will be demand for "elite status" and "prestige". The elite jobs are not hiring for what material was learned--they're hiring based on your membership in the club and your pedigree. Fix the demand for hollow symbols and maybe they become less important. Good luck getting Goldman and McKinsey to stop looking for Harvard on resumes though.

sandworm101 5y ago

I attended an "elite" boys school back in the 1990s. It was a doctor and lawyer factory. Everyone went to university and most got advanced degrees. But I talked to a teacher there recently. The students are now so wealthy that they are hard to motivate. Doctors have to touch sick people. Lawyers have to go work in an office. The students at my old school today don't dream of success. They all pass, they all do well, but they aren't performing like they used to. They know they will all go work for daddy's real estate/banking firm. Why bother even trying? My old school is now no longer the top in the country, slipping to 4th last time I looked. The student body is smart, but simply doesn't try as hard at anything anymore. I don't blame them.

mistrial9 5y ago
although genuine, this analysis is sort of 2D cutout characterization, which feeds class stereotypes in another way.. "When I was in school, I had to walk 2 miles every day, uphill both ways! .. you people are less motivated" sort of applies Modern life has the number of human signals daily, increased to stratospheric levels.. this is new, very new. It is not clear how intelligent, social people are changing under this communications environment. other points omitted for the sake of brevity, but not the whole story here..
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Perhaps bank accounts, transactions, credit reports, grades, should be public information, physical measurements, medical history, etc should be public information. That way we, we do not have to play these signaling games and can focus resources elsewhere.
- sandworm101 5y ago
  The fact that an experience is stereotypical doesn't meant it is also inaccurate. Students today do not have it easier. They are working less hard at school because they need to work harder in other areas. Grades don't matter. Everyone gets strait-As so as long as you meat that standard there is little point in trying harder. Even Going to a good school matters less and less. The things kids have to do today are very different than I faced. For me, grades were enough. For today's kids grades are only the starting point. For instance, social media presence is now very important. I never had to deal with that when I was applying to universities.
  - hytdstd 5y ago
    > For today's kids grades are only the starting point. For instance, social media presence is now very important. Care to elaborate on this?
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      “I was speechless when a school official asked me about all the clubbing and party pictures I posted on my Facebook Account. In hindsight, I think I got rejected from that school because they might have thought I will do the same once I join school." https://ischoolconnect.com/blog/effect-of-social-media-on-college-admissions/ https://ischoolconnect.com/blog/effect-of-social-media-on-co... "According to a 2017 survey administered by the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, 11% of respondents said they "denied admission based on social media content" and another 7% rescinded offers for the same reason." https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2019-08-22/why-colleges-look-at-students-social-media-accounts https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2019... "According to the 364 colleges across the United States we recently spoke with, 25 percent tell us that they have visited an applicant’s social media page, such as Facebook, Instagram or Twitter to learn more about them*." https://www.kaptest.com/study/pre-college/college-admission-the-complete-guide-to-social-media/ https://www.kaptest.com/study/pre-college/college-admission-...