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> The e-ink patent is so frustrating. Hmm.. I keep seeing this on HN. I then ask which specific patent and I never get a satisfactory answer. But I'll keep try

> The e-ink patent is so frustrating. Hmm.. I keep seeing this on HN. I then ask which specific patent and I never get a satisfactory answer. But I'll keep trying. I work in the display industry and am not aware of any specific patent that is blocking progress in developing electrophoretic displays. Are you? If yes, please please point out which specific patent and how it is blocking your design.

grawprog 5y ago
I just have to point out, it was really easy to find these. Like took me 30 seconds. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080043317A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080043317A1/en https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation https://patents.google.com/patent/US9341917B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9341917B1/en https://stks.freshpatents.com/E-Ink-Holdings-Inc-nm1.php https://stks.freshpatents.com/E-Ink-Holdings-Inc-nm1.php
- robinsoh 5y ago
  And I have to point out that just googling for E Ink patents doesn't help us understand what point you are making. It is the equivalent of me claiming that Microsoft is blocking operating system progress and then justifying it by giving you a set of Microsoft patents. I hope the analogy is clear.
criddell 5y ago
When a competitor appears, they usually sue with these two patents: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6120588A/en (expired) https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160187759A1/en That said, there are a lot of inexpensive epaper panels for sale on Alibaba.
- jandrese 5y ago
  One of China's competitive advantages is that they don't give a shit about patents. This leads to extremely fast product cycles but also occasional stories about original inventors who feel they were screwed because people in China ripped off their design and improved it without their consent (or license fees). An example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2018/01/31/meet-the-inventor-of-the-hoverboard-who-lost-millions-to-chinese-counterfeiters/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2018/01/31/meet-the...
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    In my industry, unfortunately, this has led to some level of bias and mistrust against employees of Chinese origin. The problem is, as you state, there have been multiple cases of individuals working for a company, getting access to key formulations, processes and then a couple of years later, the exact same product starts getting made in China.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > they usually sue with these two patents I couldn't find a lawsuit referencing either patent. Is there a link you could help provide?
  - kasabali 5y ago
    Legal threats won't necessarily result in lawsuits. Lack of publicly accessible lawsuits doesn't input lawyers of Company X doesn't shot down every single remote competitor preemptively with threats of legal action. At that point possible competitors either won't even try bothering or they'll pay whatever asked and sign a NDA preventing then from disclosing the patents in question (as a common practice on patent litigation deals).
    - robinsoh 5y ago
      Just to confirm since this isn't publicly accessible, are you saying this actually happened with E Ink? as I mentioned I work in the display industry, and if something like that happened, surely we'd all be talking about it during SID or stuff like that. When did it happen? Where? I'd love to know.
      - kasabali 5y ago
        I'm telling how patent litigation works in general and why you can't expect anybody to spoonfeed a random stranger on internet with a list of patents.
        robinsoh 5y ago
        > I'm telling how patent litigation works in general and why you can't expect anybody to spoonfeed a random stranger on internet with a list of patents. I'm unsure what's with the "spoonfeed" remark, it seems intended to be insulting. As I said, I'm really curious what patent and what lawsuits or similar criminal activity has been done (or from the sound of these comments is being done) by E-Ink. HN people are referring to it in many posts and because I happen to work in the display industry, I'm really surprised. I'd never heard anything like that amongst my peers or during conferences. The main place I've seen this refrain is on HN. Please have a look at my comment history as I keep asking about which patent people are talking about. It is the equivalent of a bunch of my display industry people claiming that Google is blocking search engine progress and then justifying it by giving you a set of Google patents and then shouting, see there's the clear proof that Google is a bad actor. I hope the analogy is clear and that it is also clear why I remain unconvinced about both!

grawprog 5y ago

I just have to point out, it was really easy to find these. Like took me 30 seconds. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080043317A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080043317A1/en https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation https://patents.google.com/patent/US9341917B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9341917B1/en https://stks.freshpatents.com/E-Ink-Holdings-Inc-nm1.php https://stks.freshpatents.com/E-Ink-Holdings-Inc-nm1.php

robinsoh 5y ago
And I have to point out that just googling for E Ink patents doesn't help us understand what point you are making. It is the equivalent of me claiming that Microsoft is blocking operating system progress and then justifying it by giving you a set of Microsoft patents. I hope the analogy is clear.

criddell 5y ago

When a competitor appears, they usually sue with these two patents: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6120588A/en (expired) https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160187759A1/en That said, there are a lot of inexpensive epaper panels for sale on Alibaba.

jandrese 5y ago
One of China's competitive advantages is that they don't give a shit about patents. This leads to extremely fast product cycles but also occasional stories about original inventors who feel they were screwed because people in China ripped off their design and improved it without their consent (or license fees). An example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2018/01/31/meet-the-inventor-of-the-hoverboard-who-lost-millions-to-chinese-counterfeiters/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2018/01/31/meet-the...
- robinsoh 5y ago
  In my industry, unfortunately, this has led to some level of bias and mistrust against employees of Chinese origin. The problem is, as you state, there have been multiple cases of individuals working for a company, getting access to key formulations, processes and then a couple of years later, the exact same product starts getting made in China.
robinsoh 5y ago
> they usually sue with these two patents I couldn't find a lawsuit referencing either patent. Is there a link you could help provide?
- kasabali 5y ago
  Legal threats won't necessarily result in lawsuits. Lack of publicly accessible lawsuits doesn't input lawyers of Company X doesn't shot down every single remote competitor preemptively with threats of legal action. At that point possible competitors either won't even try bothering or they'll pay whatever asked and sign a NDA preventing then from disclosing the patents in question (as a common practice on patent litigation deals).
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    Just to confirm since this isn't publicly accessible, are you saying this actually happened with E Ink? as I mentioned I work in the display industry, and if something like that happened, surely we'd all be talking about it during SID or stuff like that. When did it happen? Where? I'd love to know.
    - kasabali 5y ago
      I'm telling how patent litigation works in general and why you can't expect anybody to spoonfeed a random stranger on internet with a list of patents.
      - robinsoh 5y ago
        > I'm telling how patent litigation works in general and why you can't expect anybody to spoonfeed a random stranger on internet with a list of patents. I'm unsure what's with the "spoonfeed" remark, it seems intended to be insulting. As I said, I'm really curious what patent and what lawsuits or similar criminal activity has been done (or from the sound of these comments is being done) by E-Ink. HN people are referring to it in many posts and because I happen to work in the display industry, I'm really surprised. I'd never heard anything like that amongst my peers or during conferences. The main place I've seen this refrain is on HN. Please have a look at my comment history as I keep asking about which patent people are talking about. It is the equivalent of a bunch of my display industry people claiming that Google is blocking search engine progress and then justifying it by giving you a set of Google patents and then shouting, see there's the clear proof that Google is a bad actor. I hope the analogy is clear and that it is also clear why I remain unconvinced about both!