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“I used to be a mathematics professor. At that time I found there were a certain number of students who could not learn mathematics. I then was charged with ¨th

by kps 5y ago

“I used to be a mathematics professor. At that time I found there were a certain number of students who could not learn mathematics. I then was charged with ¨the job of making it easy for businessmen to use our computers. I found it was not a question of whether they could learn mathematics or not, but whether they would. […] They said, ‘Throw those symbols out — I do not know what they mean, I have not time to learn symbols.’ I suggest a reply to those who would like data processing people to use mathematical symbols that they make the first attempt to teach those symbols to vice-presidents or a colonel or admiral. I assure you that I tried it.” — Grace Hopper tl;dr: COBOL won.

nerdponx 5y ago
For business and business people. Julia's target audience isn't "business" or "business people", although there's no reason you couldn't use it for that purpose.
ska 5y ago
Hopper was making a bit of a different point - you need to tailor your communication to your audience. In this case, if the developers involved are assumed to know the math already, concise is probably for the good. If you are trying to teach the algorithms to a mathematically unsophisticated audience, it's a different story. If I'm describing the same concept to a) a group of undergrad students, b) a group of mathematicians and grad students c) a group of software developers or d) a room full of execs - I'm going to do it differently in each case, including notation and emphasis.
- kps 5y ago
  Yes, that was my point, or at least part of it: COBOL style isn't suitable for mathematical programming. The other part is that it was never intended for programmers at all; it was for the ‘vice-president or a colonel or admiral’ who wanted the illusion of being able to understand their underlings' work. I think it's unfortunate that it took over general-purpose computing during the dot-com boom; prolixity engenders clarity about as much in code as in human language.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
Julia is not for businessmen incapable of learning mathematics.

by kps 5y ago

nerdponx 5y ago

For business and business people. Julia's target audience isn't "business" or "business people", although there's no reason you couldn't use it for that purpose.

ska 5y ago

Hopper was making a bit of a different point - you need to tailor your communication to your audience. In this case, if the developers involved are assumed to know the math already, concise is probably for the good. If you are trying to teach the algorithms to a mathematically unsophisticated audience, it's a different story. If I'm describing the same concept to a) a group of undergrad students, b) a group of mathematicians and grad students c) a group of software developers or d) a room full of execs - I'm going to do it differently in each case, including notation and emphasis.

kps 5y ago
Yes, that was my point, or at least part of it: COBOL style isn't suitable for mathematical programming. The other part is that it was never intended for programmers at all; it was for the ‘vice-president or a colonel or admiral’ who wanted the illusion of being able to understand their underlings' work. I think it's unfortunate that it took over general-purpose computing during the dot-com boom; prolixity engenders clarity about as much in code as in human language.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

Julia is not for businessmen incapable of learning mathematics.