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"Since God has given us the papacy, let us enjoy it." --Giovanni di Lorenzo de' Medici, aka Pope Leo X

trhway 5y ago
and it was the last straw, so to speak, for Luther ... Interesting though that Medici started in 13xx as kind of disrupting upstart riding/representing a paradigm shift, ie. as city based tradesmen of growing wealth they were going against the established/entrenched order where aristocratic nobility ruled - and as any successful upstart they broke through the established order and "regulatory captured" all the power 150-200 years later, ie. Florence, papacy, French crown,... thus themselves becoming that entrenched order what the upstarts of 15xx were fighting against.
- mjklin 5y ago
  “In the eyes of the Italians we Germans are merely low Teutonic swine. They exploit us like charlatans and suck the country to the marrow. Wake up Germany!” - quote by Frantz Funck-Brentano in his book Luther
  - trhway 5y ago
    yep, as far as i see all the religious insurrection is accompanied by some kind of nationalism. Hussites, Luther, Church of England, Zaporozhian Cossacks, ...
    - mistrial9 5y ago
      winners bias - local culture existed everywhere as grass grows through cracks of the roads to Rome
- hinkley 5y ago
  I wonder which is the cart and which is the horse. Is maneuvering the reason you last for 200 years, or does anyone who can keep organized for 200 years find themselves maneuvering into the public sector whether they want to or not? At least at first, until you realize how much influence you have and then it goes to your head.
  - trhway 5y ago
    it was a rise of the independent cities where power in part came from some kind of [granted pretty limited] voting/representation instead of being just an aristocratic hereditary thing. The [especially limited] voting/representation naturally allows for high wealth individuals to maneuver into that power. The cities also allowed for that high wealth to be developed by non aristocratic tradesmen. >does anyone who can keep organized for 200 years find themselves maneuvering into the public sector whether they want to or not? i think the answer here is "if you don't do politics politics will do you"

and it was the last straw, so to speak, for Luther ... Interesting though that Medici started in 13xx as kind of disrupting upstart riding/representing a paradigm shift, ie. as city based tradesmen of growing wealth they were going against the established/entrenched order where aristocratic nobility ruled - and as any successful upstart they broke through the established order and "regulatory captured" all the power 150-200 years later, ie. Florence, papacy, French crown,... thus themselves becoming that entrenched order what the upstarts of 15xx were fighting against.

mjklin 5y ago
“In the eyes of the Italians we Germans are merely low Teutonic swine. They exploit us like charlatans and suck the country to the marrow. Wake up Germany!” - quote by Frantz Funck-Brentano in his book Luther
- trhway 5y ago
  yep, as far as i see all the religious insurrection is accompanied by some kind of nationalism. Hussites, Luther, Church of England, Zaporozhian Cossacks, ...
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    winners bias - local culture existed everywhere as grass grows through cracks of the roads to Rome
hinkley 5y ago
I wonder which is the cart and which is the horse. Is maneuvering the reason you last for 200 years, or does anyone who can keep organized for 200 years find themselves maneuvering into the public sector whether they want to or not? At least at first, until you realize how much influence you have and then it goes to your head.
- trhway 5y ago
  it was a rise of the independent cities where power in part came from some kind of [granted pretty limited] voting/representation instead of being just an aristocratic hereditary thing. The [especially limited] voting/representation naturally allows for high wealth individuals to maneuver into that power. The cities also allowed for that high wealth to be developed by non aristocratic tradesmen. >does anyone who can keep organized for 200 years find themselves maneuvering into the public sector whether they want to or not? i think the answer here is "if you don't do politics politics will do you"