4 ms·

We're seeing a reversion of GOP philosophy away from the influence of libertarianism (which is not traditionally conservative or even Republican) towards more t

We're seeing a reversion of GOP philosophy away from the influence of libertarianism (which is not traditionally conservative or even Republican) towards more traditional ways of managing markets. > That's a surprising thing to hear from a supposedly free-market Conservative political party. No it's not really. The GOP is not in favor of a perfectly free market and never has been. Other than libertarian extremists who may find their home in the party, you'll be hard-pressed to find a GOP politician that opposes things like public right of ways on private property.- Also, I'll point out that liberals attempting to parse out GOP 'attitudes' are almost always wrong. I've been pointing out the flip in GOP attitudes away from free market absolutism for many years now. Popular commentators like Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh have as well. Suddenly, a liberal publication discovers it and tries to point out 'hypocrisy' on thinking that's been changing for the better half of the last decade. Keep up.

danShumway 5y ago
> The GOP is not in favor of a perfectly free market and never has been I don't agree that this is just Liberals reading things into GOP positions, the GOP does position itself publicly as a free market party. Whether or not their actions line up with that philosophy isn't really the point. I do agree that under Trump people may have gotten a bit more open about the fact that they reject liberalism and/or Libertarian philosophies. I have seen a relatively large increase in Conservatives telling me that they don't trust the free market to solve problems. But in general, the official party messaging hasn't changed just because the actions don't line up with it. Of course, there's a lot of different Conservatives, and different areas/groups have different beliefs. But in my experience, if you step into mainline Conservative spaces and talk to (especially older) Conservatives, they will still tell you they believe in using the free market to solve problems. They will tell you that the government shouldn't decide outcomes. They will tell you that the free market solves discrimination. They will usually tell you that mandating equal access is government overreach. And these people are not Libertarians. They're not arguing for completely unregulated markets; but they are arguing for free market solutions for problems like discrimination or bias. They generally tell me that legislating for equitable outcomes in representation instead of processes is incorrect. The fact that people can find hypocrisies or disagreements or differing opinions about to what degree the GOP favors market solutions to problems -- that doesn't mean that the GOP is not cultivating a very specific view of itself and a set of narratives that it likes to tell about itself. It is, of course, a mistake to assume that genuinely held political ideals and actions from party think-tanks are going always going to match a party's PR, but it is equally a mistake to assume that differing opinions or actions from party members means that the PR is irrelevant or that it shouldn't be discussed. Most ordinary Conservatives I personally know outside of think-tanks or extremely engaged groups would disagree with your assessment of their own party. They believe (right or wrong) that they are free market Conservatives. When I talk about their beliefs, I'm not parsing out, or reading into, or guessing anything about their internal representation of their motivations. This is what they tell me, this is what they think that their party stands for. So I think whether they're right or wrong about what their party believes is worth talking about and reflecting on. If younger or more involved members of the party have dropped those positions, or if the demographics have shifted -- the party doesn't seem to feel a lot of urgency to reach out to older/rural Republicans to let them know about that change -- at least not in my experience in the Conservative communities I encounter.
- iammisc 5y ago
  What gop voters want and what the GOP wants tend to be completely different, which is why younger conservatives tend to not like the GOP. Older conservatives are weird and will be gone in a few decades. As a republican for a very long time, I personally am on the 'free market is a tool, not an end' side of the policy platform. To be fair, if you ask most normal democrats, they'll tell you they're for free markets too. All Americans seem to think they are. It's part of our cultural mythos. If a democrat says they're not, it's usually because they don't want to be perceived as a republican, rather than an actual belief.

danShumway 5y ago

> The GOP is not in favor of a perfectly free market and never has been I don't agree that this is just Liberals reading things into GOP positions, the GOP does position itself publicly as a free market party. Whether or not their actions line up with that philosophy isn't really the point. I do agree that under Trump people may have gotten a bit more open about the fact that they reject liberalism and/or Libertarian philosophies. I have seen a relatively large increase in Conservatives telling me that they don't trust the free market to solve problems. But in general, the official party messaging hasn't changed just because the actions don't line up with it. Of course, there's a lot of different Conservatives, and different areas/groups have different beliefs. But in my experience, if you step into mainline Conservative spaces and talk to (especially older) Conservatives, they will still tell you they believe in using the free market to solve problems. They will tell you that the government shouldn't decide outcomes. They will tell you that the free market solves discrimination. They will usually tell you that mandating equal access is government overreach. And these people are not Libertarians. They're not arguing for completely unregulated markets; but they are arguing for free market solutions for problems like discrimination or bias. They generally tell me that legislating for equitable outcomes in representation instead of processes is incorrect. The fact that people can find hypocrisies or disagreements or differing opinions about to what degree the GOP favors market solutions to problems -- that doesn't mean that the GOP is not cultivating a very specific view of itself and a set of narratives that it likes to tell about itself. It is, of course, a mistake to assume that genuinely held political ideals and actions from party think-tanks are going always going to match a party's PR, but it is equally a mistake to assume that differing opinions or actions from party members means that the PR is irrelevant or that it shouldn't be discussed. Most ordinary Conservatives I personally know outside of think-tanks or extremely engaged groups would disagree with your assessment of their own party. They believe (right or wrong) that they are free market Conservatives. When I talk about their beliefs, I'm not parsing out, or reading into, or guessing anything about their internal representation of their motivations. This is what they tell me, this is what they think that their party stands for. So I think whether they're right or wrong about what their party believes is worth talking about and reflecting on. If younger or more involved members of the party have dropped those positions, or if the demographics have shifted -- the party doesn't seem to feel a lot of urgency to reach out to older/rural Republicans to let them know about that change -- at least not in my experience in the Conservative communities I encounter.

iammisc 5y ago
What gop voters want and what the GOP wants tend to be completely different, which is why younger conservatives tend to not like the GOP. Older conservatives are weird and will be gone in a few decades. As a republican for a very long time, I personally am on the 'free market is a tool, not an end' side of the policy platform. To be fair, if you ask most normal democrats, they'll tell you they're for free markets too. All Americans seem to think they are. It's part of our cultural mythos. If a democrat says they're not, it's usually because they don't want to be perceived as a republican, rather than an actual belief.