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He did manage to create an electric car segment that left other manufacturers in the dust... same manufacturers now racing to compete and not become irrelevant.

He did manage to create an electric car segment that left other manufacturers in the dust... same manufacturers now racing to compete and not become irrelevant. As such, a lot of good was achieved for the environment. The self driving would have been cherry-on-top.

thinkingemote 5y ago
I think the "environment good" is also mainly marketing. People might feel better buying an electric car. People will rationalise by saying "well, I won't be buying another car for 10 years". You have to own an e car for several years to get some environmental benefit. However we are seeing people buy new e cars at the same rate as normal ones, if not sooner as technology is improved. Car companies want you to buy their cars more than protecting the environment. This could make it worse than normal cars in many ways. Consumption needs to decrease to be actually greener.
- adriancr 5y ago
  > I think the "environment good" is also mainly marketing. An electric car is arguably much better then a diesel or gas powered car. > This could make it worse than normal cars in many ways. Care to detail how this would be worse?, your comment doesn't make much sense. Tesla can't keep up with demand, cars are bought, used and sold second hand to be driven as well... (they aren't thrown away). This is displacing a lot of gas/diesel powered cars. > Consumption needs to decrease to be actually greener. You might mean consumption of fossil fuels needs to decrease. Which is happening. People will still need to drive, electric cars just moves us from fossil fuels to renewables like solar panels or wind farms much faster.
  - yladiz 5y ago
    > An electric car is arguably much better then a diesel or gas powered car. It depends on how you define better, though. For a city, yes, there is no air pollution coming directly from an electric car, but it's significantly more polluting in the manufacturing process compared to an ICE car due to the special materials needed. An example is lithium, which uses solvents and chemicals that are toxic during the mining and manufacturing process, which then produces extremely bad waste that's hard to deal with (and often isn't, causing significant problems for the local area). This is a particularly bad problem for electric cars since they need very large batteries. This process (and others) need to be improved significantly and recycling programs need to become a better alternative to simply creating the materials from scratch to really say that electric cars are unequivocally better than ICE.
    - adriancr 5y ago
      > An example is lithium, which uses solvents and chemicals that are toxic during the mining and manufacturing process Looking over environment aspects of production below, all the recent studies disprove what was assumed so far and your comment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_electric_car#Environmental_impact_of_manufacturing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_e... One such: "A 2020 study from Eindhoven University of Technology mentioned that the manufacturing emissions of batteries of new electric cars are much smaller than what was assumed in the IVL study (around 75 kg CO2/kwh) and that the lifespan of lithium batteries is also much longer than previously thought (at least 12 years with a mileage of 15000 km annually). As such, they are more ecological than gasoline-powered internal combustion cars.[58] [59] " This doesn't even take in account recycling. As for harmful chemicals during mining and manufacturing - it's the same for any other mining operation like gold and so on, states put in place laws that you cannot use harmful chemicals and other solutions are found. (cyanide in gold mining comes to mind)
      - yladiz 5y ago
        > it's the same for any other mining operation like gold and so on, states put in place laws that you cannot use harmful chemicals This only works if you actually have an alternative. What if your process requires benzene and there are no alternatives?
nicbou 5y ago
Did he? As I understand it, other car companies managed to create attractive electric vehicles, often at a better price point. I feel like soon enough, Tesla's first mover advantage might evaporate, and large auto companies with a century of experience will take over. Perhaps it's just my general disinterest in modern cars, but I don't really see what distinguishes Teslas from other electric vehicles. It has four wheels and a big touch screen, like all the other cars.
- freewilly1040 5y ago
  It's the charging network, which means you can go (almost) wherever you want in your car and spend only marginally more time fueling than an ICE. Non-Tesla chargers means a fillup takes hours rather than minutes. It's going to take a while to catch up.
- adriancr 5y ago
  If you are not interested in modern cars, why are you even commenting on them?, is there any value added by this comment? There weren't any fully electric cars for sale before Tesla. They've only started to appear recently as other car companies see the writing on the wall and they don't want to become obsolete. Just looking at Tesla's market cap vs the rest shows you where the market is going. Tesla is still far ahead. Just look into buying an electric car and compare.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    You do realize the very first cars were electric? The only hard part of electric cars is the battery - which is third-party in Teslas.
  - nicbou 5y ago
    I'm not interested in buying them. > Just looking at Tesla's market cap Hype does not translate to vehicle quality. Tesla's market cap is a statement about the current economy, not their electric cars. > Just look into buying an electric car and compare. There are other options, and they're getting excellent reviews. They just don't have the same cult following. Large car manufacturers who are allegedly playing catch-up have built excellent, affordable electric cars, and have announced more interesting models. It's not like Teslas are outstanding cars for the price either. Much has been written about their build quality, among other flaws. I just see Tesla as a flash in the pan. Ford released really good electric cars like it's no big deal, and announced a few more. Other manufacturers are doing the same. They'll build cars people will want, at prices people can afford. I don't see what edge Tesla has on them.
sircastor 5y ago
I’m of the opinion that Nissan did more for the Electric Car than Tesla did. The LEAF was just not as flashy as the Model S.

thinkingemote 5y ago

I think the "environment good" is also mainly marketing. People might feel better buying an electric car. People will rationalise by saying "well, I won't be buying another car for 10 years". You have to own an e car for several years to get some environmental benefit. However we are seeing people buy new e cars at the same rate as normal ones, if not sooner as technology is improved. Car companies want you to buy their cars more than protecting the environment. This could make it worse than normal cars in many ways. Consumption needs to decrease to be actually greener.

adriancr 5y ago
> I think the "environment good" is also mainly marketing. An electric car is arguably much better then a diesel or gas powered car. > This could make it worse than normal cars in many ways. Care to detail how this would be worse?, your comment doesn't make much sense. Tesla can't keep up with demand, cars are bought, used and sold second hand to be driven as well... (they aren't thrown away). This is displacing a lot of gas/diesel powered cars. > Consumption needs to decrease to be actually greener. You might mean consumption of fossil fuels needs to decrease. Which is happening. People will still need to drive, electric cars just moves us from fossil fuels to renewables like solar panels or wind farms much faster.
- yladiz 5y ago
  > An electric car is arguably much better then a diesel or gas powered car. It depends on how you define better, though. For a city, yes, there is no air pollution coming directly from an electric car, but it's significantly more polluting in the manufacturing process compared to an ICE car due to the special materials needed. An example is lithium, which uses solvents and chemicals that are toxic during the mining and manufacturing process, which then produces extremely bad waste that's hard to deal with (and often isn't, causing significant problems for the local area). This is a particularly bad problem for electric cars since they need very large batteries. This process (and others) need to be improved significantly and recycling programs need to become a better alternative to simply creating the materials from scratch to really say that electric cars are unequivocally better than ICE.
  - adriancr 5y ago
    > An example is lithium, which uses solvents and chemicals that are toxic during the mining and manufacturing process Looking over environment aspects of production below, all the recent studies disprove what was assumed so far and your comment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_electric_car#Environmental_impact_of_manufacturing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_e... One such: "A 2020 study from Eindhoven University of Technology mentioned that the manufacturing emissions of batteries of new electric cars are much smaller than what was assumed in the IVL study (around 75 kg CO2/kwh) and that the lifespan of lithium batteries is also much longer than previously thought (at least 12 years with a mileage of 15000 km annually). As such, they are more ecological than gasoline-powered internal combustion cars.[58] [59] " This doesn't even take in account recycling. As for harmful chemicals during mining and manufacturing - it's the same for any other mining operation like gold and so on, states put in place laws that you cannot use harmful chemicals and other solutions are found. (cyanide in gold mining comes to mind)
    - yladiz 5y ago
      > it's the same for any other mining operation like gold and so on, states put in place laws that you cannot use harmful chemicals This only works if you actually have an alternative. What if your process requires benzene and there are no alternatives?

nicbou 5y ago

Did he? As I understand it, other car companies managed to create attractive electric vehicles, often at a better price point. I feel like soon enough, Tesla's first mover advantage might evaporate, and large auto companies with a century of experience will take over. Perhaps it's just my general disinterest in modern cars, but I don't really see what distinguishes Teslas from other electric vehicles. It has four wheels and a big touch screen, like all the other cars.

freewilly1040 5y ago
It's the charging network, which means you can go (almost) wherever you want in your car and spend only marginally more time fueling than an ICE. Non-Tesla chargers means a fillup takes hours rather than minutes. It's going to take a while to catch up.
adriancr 5y ago
If you are not interested in modern cars, why are you even commenting on them?, is there any value added by this comment? There weren't any fully electric cars for sale before Tesla. They've only started to appear recently as other car companies see the writing on the wall and they don't want to become obsolete. Just looking at Tesla's market cap vs the rest shows you where the market is going. Tesla is still far ahead. Just look into buying an electric car and compare.
- kaba0 5y ago
  You do realize the very first cars were electric? The only hard part of electric cars is the battery - which is third-party in Teslas.
- nicbou 5y ago
  I'm not interested in buying them. > Just looking at Tesla's market cap Hype does not translate to vehicle quality. Tesla's market cap is a statement about the current economy, not their electric cars. > Just look into buying an electric car and compare. There are other options, and they're getting excellent reviews. They just don't have the same cult following. Large car manufacturers who are allegedly playing catch-up have built excellent, affordable electric cars, and have announced more interesting models. It's not like Teslas are outstanding cars for the price either. Much has been written about their build quality, among other flaws. I just see Tesla as a flash in the pan. Ford released really good electric cars like it's no big deal, and announced a few more. Other manufacturers are doing the same. They'll build cars people will want, at prices people can afford. I don't see what edge Tesla has on them.

sircastor 5y ago

I’m of the opinion that Nissan did more for the Electric Car than Tesla did. The LEAF was just not as flashy as the Model S.