7 ms·

I love how hypocritical these companies are. Environment friendly they say: - Force people to buy a part separately that could easily be included in the box (wa

I love how hypocritical these companies are. Environment friendly they say: - Force people to buy a part separately that could easily be included in the box (wasting less packaging in the process). - Force people to replace unnecessary parts when repairing their products (my gfs MacBook broke the screen internally, without applying much strenght to it, and Apple repair solution is to replace the entire top end of the laptop for 600€) - Make stupid expensive for people to repair their products, and almost impossible for third party shops to repair them. And this isn't just Apple, most brands are going the same route. Meanwhile world its sinking in garbage, but shareholders are happy I guess.

fsflover 5y ago
Fairphone is the answer here.
- bnajdecki 5y ago
  Haven't heard about them - good to know!
- Antipode 5y ago
  I really wish they had US support. They'll work if you can get one, but they don't ship to the US so you have to use a third party re-shipper (both for the phone and for replacement parts). Even then their frequency bands aren't optimized for the US so you're likely to have reception issues.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    Have a look at Librem 5 as an alternative.
misnome 5y ago
> Force people to buy a part separately that could easily be included in the box (wasting less packaging in the process). A part that 90% of people probably already own 10 of? Sounds like 10% more packaging and 90% less e-waste? I mean I get the whole "non repairable is bad" argument but Apple stuff has great lifespan and good resale value, thereby being reused instead of junked when upgrading. And they accept devices for recycling, don't they? Of course it could be better, but there are legitimate ways of looking at these things that aren't as unambiguously "Hypocritical" as you are asserting.
- anothernewdude 5y ago
  Sure, the resale value of broken apple equipment is through the roof.
- gugagore 5y ago
  What part are you both talking about? Surely you're talking past each other to some degree.
  - jalk 5y ago
    Charger
  - gostsamo 5y ago
    charger
- chrisweekly 5y ago
  Gluing or soldering what should be user-upgradeable, commodity components in laptops still really bothers me.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Are you sure they could? I can't imagine how could you possibly fit a connector within my great (and its thinness is a principal component of that greatness) Macbook, and having multiple ways of doing one thing doesn't seem like good business or good for the nature - especially if phones and tablets are the major product of the company.
    - nickflood 5y ago
      Yes, they could. Look at Dell XPS 13 9310. It has the battery that's not glued in (using screws) which you can get a replacement for 70-150 bucks and change youself. It has trackpad and keyboard that are replaceable separately. And the SSD is slotted so you can upgrade the drive or recover data when stuff happens and your motherboard dies. Meanwhile, it has great screen, is very light (1.1kg) and thin. The battery life is on par with Intel macs as well. In 15" laptops you additionally now get a slot for a second hard drive and upgradeable RAM without sacrificing much in terms of thickness (look at XPS 15 9500).
NewLogic 5y ago
Tim is a bean counter at heart and everything Apple has been marketing spin for decades.
- eitland 5y ago
  > everything Apple has been marketing spin for decades. After using Android since around 2010 getting a midrange iPhone around 18 or so months ago was almost a revelation for me, so no, it is clearly not all marketing spin. (Why? Even on a Note II or S7 Edge something as trivial as opening the camera would have me waiting. On my iPhone XR pressing the camera button brings up the camera more or less instantaneously. And there are also a number of small conveniences that are hard to really pinpoint like actually understanding when it is in my pocket and then not turn on and burn out my battery.)
  - christophilus 5y ago
    It’s been a minute since I used Android, but I definitely felt the same when I switched to the iPhone. I found it a much more refined experience over all. That said, if there was a decent Linux phone, I’d hop on it, warts and all. Pinephone or Librem are getting close.
    - deregulateMed 5y ago
      I wonder if you got a garbage Android. Samsung is the Apple of Android. Big marketing budget, medium quality.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - tsherr 5y ago
    On my ancient and overloaded S8, the camera loads in under a second after double tapping power. Battery lasts all day (and it's 4 years old). Doesn't turn on when it's in my pocket. These anecdotal "I switched to x and its waaay better" things always reek of bias. That a 2017 phone is slower than a 2018 phone is obvious - plus you'd need to reset the s7 to factory defaults for fair(er) comparison. I do support on iPhones (not an Apple employee) and I've never experienced the the vaunted "this is so much better" moment.
foobar33333 5y ago
I and everyone I know already has plenty of USB-A and USB-C bricks laying around. The things last forever and build up. So its more like every other company gives you a bit of junk you will not use.
- eldaisfish 5y ago
  Do apple or any other company offer you a discount for not including cables and chargers with the phones you buy?
  - blowfish721 5y ago
    Apple lowered the price on the new 20W charger to $19 instead of $29 as for the old 18W charger, not a huge amount. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/10/13/apple-selling-20w-usb-c-power-adapter/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/10/13/apple-selling-20w-usb-c...
  - foobar33333 5y ago
    Yes, they ask you if you need one at the time of purchase and if you don't ask for one you don't pay the $19 for one. Trying to account for what the original BoM would have been with one in the box is an impossible effort and not very useful. At the end of the day all you need to do is decide if the value provided by the product matches the price the company sells it at. If not, don't buy it. For me the brick adds no extra value so I don't have to account for it. If I needed the brick and the extra $19 pushed me over the edge to not worth it then I would consider another phone.
antris 5y ago
It's a bit disingenuous to lay blame on companies for hypocrisy, when they have to play by the system set up by politicians. Capitalism doesn't give you any extra points for being sustainable. If anything, it can interfere or be in direct opposition to making profits. You win at capitalism by making profits. A non-sustainable competitor will eat you, if you start worrying about the environment too much. So greenwashing is the way to go for most companies, in order to avoid boycotts, and people are ready to believe it because these problems are complex and people don't want to think that the stuff they buy are hurting the environment. This is a very foreseeable result, given the incentives. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Demand change from the politicians.
- syshum 5y ago
  >>Don't hate the player, hate the game. No, that is a stupid saying and people need to stop using. Unethical actions are unethical even if the "game" allows for it. >> Demand change from the politicians. No again, the solution to this problem is not some authoritarian government response, or even (which is implied by your indirect blame of capitalism for all the problems in the world) socialist economic model >Capitalism doesn't give you any extra points for being sustainable. Capitalism does not care about about sustainability or non-sustainable , non-sustainable companies are NOT givin a "competitive advantage" by capitalism. In reality is current government regulations like provide non-sustainable companies with that advantage in the form of liability shields, and various other government programs written by big business for big business to ensure the status quo You appeal to government authority is as misplaced as your blame of capitalism for all the problems
  - antris 5y ago
    >Unethical actions are unethical even if the "game" allows for it. Nobody says what Apple is doing is ethical, at least I sure didn't. The point is, the problem runs deeper than one company. The system has an incentive structure where companies benefit by doing as Apple does. It's like blaming a ball for rolling down a hill. If you don't want the ball to roll, go play on a level field. >You appeal to government authority You make this sound like I'm for some kind of dictatorship. I firmly believe in a government democratically elected by the people. Even if the system is capitalist in nature, it should always be subservient to the will of the people. The governments should be tied to the will and interest of the people. Especially in the US it seems that the government acts for the corporate special interests. In that case, the solution is more democracy, not less. >non-sustainable companies are NOT givin a "competitive advantage" by capitalism So why are all the big companies ruining our climate then? What's the explanation? Random chance?
GavinMcG 5y ago
"Hypocritical" seems like the wrong word to describe caring about multiple things that are sometimes incompatible.
- traveler01 5y ago
  I don't think they care about the environment at all. It's plain marketing as all others LGBT things they "support". It goes well with the consumer so obviously they act as they supported those causes. Only thing companies want it's profit. It's wrong? No. But don't think they care about anything else.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
I could tell it was bullshit by the sheer length of this page: https://www.apple.com/environment/ https://www.apple.com/environment/
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
At least rest of us can be less hypocritical, If we have decided to call out companies for their lackluster climate action then contributing to the e-waste disaster by selling blackboxes should be on the list.

fsflover 5y ago

Fairphone is the answer here.

bnajdecki 5y ago
Haven't heard about them - good to know!
Antipode 5y ago
I really wish they had US support. They'll work if you can get one, but they don't ship to the US so you have to use a third party re-shipper (both for the phone and for replacement parts). Even then their frequency bands aren't optimized for the US so you're likely to have reception issues.
- fsflover 5y ago
  Have a look at Librem 5 as an alternative.

misnome 5y ago

> Force people to buy a part separately that could easily be included in the box (wasting less packaging in the process). A part that 90% of people probably already own 10 of? Sounds like 10% more packaging and 90% less e-waste? I mean I get the whole "non repairable is bad" argument but Apple stuff has great lifespan and good resale value, thereby being reused instead of junked when upgrading. And they accept devices for recycling, don't they? Of course it could be better, but there are legitimate ways of looking at these things that aren't as unambiguously "Hypocritical" as you are asserting.

anothernewdude 5y ago
Sure, the resale value of broken apple equipment is through the roof.
gugagore 5y ago
What part are you both talking about? Surely you're talking past each other to some degree.
- jalk 5y ago
  Charger
- gostsamo 5y ago
  charger
chrisweekly 5y ago
Gluing or soldering what should be user-upgradeable, commodity components in laptops still really bothers me.
- emteycz 5y ago
  Are you sure they could? I can't imagine how could you possibly fit a connector within my great (and its thinness is a principal component of that greatness) Macbook, and having multiple ways of doing one thing doesn't seem like good business or good for the nature - especially if phones and tablets are the major product of the company.
  - nickflood 5y ago
    Yes, they could. Look at Dell XPS 13 9310. It has the battery that's not glued in (using screws) which you can get a replacement for 70-150 bucks and change youself. It has trackpad and keyboard that are replaceable separately. And the SSD is slotted so you can upgrade the drive or recover data when stuff happens and your motherboard dies. Meanwhile, it has great screen, is very light (1.1kg) and thin. The battery life is on par with Intel macs as well. In 15" laptops you additionally now get a slot for a second hard drive and upgradeable RAM without sacrificing much in terms of thickness (look at XPS 15 9500).

NewLogic 5y ago

Tim is a bean counter at heart and everything Apple has been marketing spin for decades.

eitland 5y ago
> everything Apple has been marketing spin for decades. After using Android since around 2010 getting a midrange iPhone around 18 or so months ago was almost a revelation for me, so no, it is clearly not all marketing spin. (Why? Even on a Note II or S7 Edge something as trivial as opening the camera would have me waiting. On my iPhone XR pressing the camera button brings up the camera more or less instantaneously. And there are also a number of small conveniences that are hard to really pinpoint like actually understanding when it is in my pocket and then not turn on and burn out my battery.)
- christophilus 5y ago
  It’s been a minute since I used Android, but I definitely felt the same when I switched to the iPhone. I found it a much more refined experience over all. That said, if there was a decent Linux phone, I’d hop on it, warts and all. Pinephone or Librem are getting close.
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    I wonder if you got a garbage Android. Samsung is the Apple of Android. Big marketing budget, medium quality.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- tsherr 5y ago
  On my ancient and overloaded S8, the camera loads in under a second after double tapping power. Battery lasts all day (and it's 4 years old). Doesn't turn on when it's in my pocket. These anecdotal "I switched to x and its waaay better" things always reek of bias. That a 2017 phone is slower than a 2018 phone is obvious - plus you'd need to reset the s7 to factory defaults for fair(er) comparison. I do support on iPhones (not an Apple employee) and I've never experienced the the vaunted "this is so much better" moment.

foobar33333 5y ago

I and everyone I know already has plenty of USB-A and USB-C bricks laying around. The things last forever and build up. So its more like every other company gives you a bit of junk you will not use.

eldaisfish 5y ago
Do apple or any other company offer you a discount for not including cables and chargers with the phones you buy?
- blowfish721 5y ago
  Apple lowered the price on the new 20W charger to $19 instead of $29 as for the old 18W charger, not a huge amount. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/10/13/apple-selling-20w-usb-c-power-adapter/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/10/13/apple-selling-20w-usb-c...
- foobar33333 5y ago
  Yes, they ask you if you need one at the time of purchase and if you don't ask for one you don't pay the $19 for one. Trying to account for what the original BoM would have been with one in the box is an impossible effort and not very useful. At the end of the day all you need to do is decide if the value provided by the product matches the price the company sells it at. If not, don't buy it. For me the brick adds no extra value so I don't have to account for it. If I needed the brick and the extra $19 pushed me over the edge to not worth it then I would consider another phone.

antris 5y ago

It's a bit disingenuous to lay blame on companies for hypocrisy, when they have to play by the system set up by politicians. Capitalism doesn't give you any extra points for being sustainable. If anything, it can interfere or be in direct opposition to making profits. You win at capitalism by making profits. A non-sustainable competitor will eat you, if you start worrying about the environment too much. So greenwashing is the way to go for most companies, in order to avoid boycotts, and people are ready to believe it because these problems are complex and people don't want to think that the stuff they buy are hurting the environment. This is a very foreseeable result, given the incentives. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Demand change from the politicians.

syshum 5y ago
>>Don't hate the player, hate the game. No, that is a stupid saying and people need to stop using. Unethical actions are unethical even if the "game" allows for it. >> Demand change from the politicians. No again, the solution to this problem is not some authoritarian government response, or even (which is implied by your indirect blame of capitalism for all the problems in the world) socialist economic model >Capitalism doesn't give you any extra points for being sustainable. Capitalism does not care about about sustainability or non-sustainable , non-sustainable companies are NOT givin a "competitive advantage" by capitalism. In reality is current government regulations like provide non-sustainable companies with that advantage in the form of liability shields, and various other government programs written by big business for big business to ensure the status quo You appeal to government authority is as misplaced as your blame of capitalism for all the problems
- antris 5y ago
  >Unethical actions are unethical even if the "game" allows for it. Nobody says what Apple is doing is ethical, at least I sure didn't. The point is, the problem runs deeper than one company. The system has an incentive structure where companies benefit by doing as Apple does. It's like blaming a ball for rolling down a hill. If you don't want the ball to roll, go play on a level field. >You appeal to government authority You make this sound like I'm for some kind of dictatorship. I firmly believe in a government democratically elected by the people. Even if the system is capitalist in nature, it should always be subservient to the will of the people. The governments should be tied to the will and interest of the people. Especially in the US it seems that the government acts for the corporate special interests. In that case, the solution is more democracy, not less. >non-sustainable companies are NOT givin a "competitive advantage" by capitalism So why are all the big companies ruining our climate then? What's the explanation? Random chance?

GavinMcG 5y ago

"Hypocritical" seems like the wrong word to describe caring about multiple things that are sometimes incompatible.

traveler01 5y ago
I don't think they care about the environment at all. It's plain marketing as all others LGBT things they "support". It goes well with the consumer so obviously they act as they supported those causes. Only thing companies want it's profit. It's wrong? No. But don't think they care about anything else.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

I could tell it was bullshit by the sheer length of this page: https://www.apple.com/environment/ https://www.apple.com/environment/

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

At least rest of us can be less hypocritical, If we have decided to call out companies for their lackluster climate action then contributing to the e-waste disaster by selling blackboxes should be on the list.