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Most of Google is not dedicated towards building Ads, surfaces where ads are displayed, or collecting data for ads, despite popular perception.

by Xorlev 5y ago

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
All that other stuff is a loss leader for selling ads.
- hiptobecubic 5y ago
  It used to be that way. Now there are several businesses that aren't just surfaces for ads. The productivity suite, cloud, etc
- Xorlev 5y ago
  Sorry, but that's not correct. As a counterexample, Google Cloud is not a "loss leader for ads". The hardware division is not a loss leader for ads. There are a myriad of counterexamples. A loss leader is a product which is used to acquire revenue through a different channel, such as game consoles which often sell at a loss on hardware to encourage game sales.
  - Maken 5y ago
    There is a comic for that too. https://goomics.net/70/ https://goomics.net/70/
  - pabs3 5y ago
    Doesn't the hardware produced by Google direct users towards Google services that contain advertising? Or are they producing non-consumer hardware?
    - Xorlev 5y ago
      My Nest devices don't have even tenuous links to advertising.
      - esrauch 5y ago
        Nest isn't exactly a profit center for Google though. Presumably it makes sense as a foothold into the smarthome/IOT industry which might become a big surface for ads and they wouldn't want to lose that opportunity (like how some companies have been late to web or late to smartphones to their detriment).
        Xorlev 5y ago
        That's some very generous speculation. I'll grant you that ads is quite obviously (based on our public filings) profitable, but that doesn't mean every venture seeks to insert ads.
        fletchowns 5y ago
        I don't think it's speculation at this point. It used to be about who could control the family room TV experience. Now it's about who can control not only the family TV, but also the whole ecosystem of smart devices in the home that you will interact constantly with such as voice assistants and those tablet/hub things. It's all for ads, they're already doing it.
      - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
        This is incorrect. You were correct with Google Cloud: While it's a market follower that can't even break the top three, it's definitely a non-ad-based business unit. But Nest is, when viewed in a context that understands why most Google products exist. It should be obvious that Search exists to serve Ads. The first result of every search is generally an ad. That one's easy. Android and Chrome both exist to protect Google Search: They ensure that most people's default experience is to search Google for everything, so they get ads. Nest is about ads, but you have to look at the competitive context. Apple, Microsoft, Google, are all shipping ecosystems. Large catalogs of products which interoperate best with each other. It's absolutely anticompetitive and most likely illegal, but that's a digression: The issue is that for Android and Chrome to protect Search to serve Ads is that people have to pick Google's ecosystem over other ecosystems. Sure, you can pick Apple's, and Google has paid Apple eleventy-billion dollars to still send you to Google Search, but they can change their minds at any time, and it's more beneficial for Google if they don't have to pay another company for your attention. Also sometimes Apple gets on a privacy kick and makes tracking users harder, which Google wants to do to sell ads better, so they gotta fight that too. So the issue here is that Apple has iOS and then it has Siri, and then it has HomeKit, which all works very well together and provides a very clean unified experience. If Google didn't have an experience comparable to Apple's experience, people might leave Android for Apple, and that's bad. So products like Nest are entirely there to provide a Google ecosystem that is competitive to other tech companies' ecosystems, so that you view ads.
colinmhayes 5y ago
Every google product exists to encourage people to see more ads, even if he product isn't showing the ads. I encourage anyone to point to a google product that isn't either selling ads or trying to get people to spend more time on the internet so google can sell them more ads.
- Xorlev 5y ago
  Drive/Docs/Meet. Cloud. Nest. These are a few examples of (though far from the only) products completely orthogonal to ads.
  - QuercusMax 5y ago
    All of Verily, Calico, and Google Health, and Fit/FitBit. The work I do on AI-based medical device infrastructure has nothing to do with ads.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > Drive/Docs/Meet How many people who are active users of these products Bing something when they need to look it up?
    - NateEag 5y ago
      I do, by way of DuckDuckGo. Granted, I only use those products because my employer uses them internally.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Drive/docs absolutely contributes to google selling ads since it brings you to their home site. I'll give you cloud and nest though.
    - Xorlev 5y ago
      How do you figure? There's no offramps from Drive or Docs into Search as far as I know. Are you saying that because they're subdomains, it somehow works to get you to ads? Docs and Drive want to sell you storage and collaboration capabilities. Not ads.

Most of Google is not dedicated towards building Ads, surfaces where ads are displayed, or collecting data for ads, despite popular perception.

by Xorlev 5y ago

Most of Google is not dedicated towards building Ads, surfaces where ads are displayed, or collecting data for ads, despite popular perception.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago

All that other stuff is a loss leader for selling ads.

hiptobecubic 5y ago
It used to be that way. Now there are several businesses that aren't just surfaces for ads. The productivity suite, cloud, etc
Xorlev 5y ago
Sorry, but that's not correct. As a counterexample, Google Cloud is not a "loss leader for ads". The hardware division is not a loss leader for ads. There are a myriad of counterexamples. A loss leader is a product which is used to acquire revenue through a different channel, such as game consoles which often sell at a loss on hardware to encourage game sales.
- Maken 5y ago
  There is a comic for that too. https://goomics.net/70/ https://goomics.net/70/
- pabs3 5y ago
  Doesn't the hardware produced by Google direct users towards Google services that contain advertising? Or are they producing non-consumer hardware?
  - Xorlev 5y ago
    My Nest devices don't have even tenuous links to advertising.
    - esrauch 5y ago
      Nest isn't exactly a profit center for Google though. Presumably it makes sense as a foothold into the smarthome/IOT industry which might become a big surface for ads and they wouldn't want to lose that opportunity (like how some companies have been late to web or late to smartphones to their detriment).
      - Xorlev 5y ago
        That's some very generous speculation. I'll grant you that ads is quite obviously (based on our public filings) profitable, but that doesn't mean every venture seeks to insert ads.
        fletchowns 5y ago
        I don't think it's speculation at this point. It used to be about who could control the family room TV experience. Now it's about who can control not only the family TV, but also the whole ecosystem of smart devices in the home that you will interact constantly with such as voice assistants and those tablet/hub things. It's all for ads, they're already doing it.
    - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
      This is incorrect. You were correct with Google Cloud: While it's a market follower that can't even break the top three, it's definitely a non-ad-based business unit. But Nest is, when viewed in a context that understands why most Google products exist. It should be obvious that Search exists to serve Ads. The first result of every search is generally an ad. That one's easy. Android and Chrome both exist to protect Google Search: They ensure that most people's default experience is to search Google for everything, so they get ads. Nest is about ads, but you have to look at the competitive context. Apple, Microsoft, Google, are all shipping ecosystems. Large catalogs of products which interoperate best with each other. It's absolutely anticompetitive and most likely illegal, but that's a digression: The issue is that for Android and Chrome to protect Search to serve Ads is that people have to pick Google's ecosystem over other ecosystems. Sure, you can pick Apple's, and Google has paid Apple eleventy-billion dollars to still send you to Google Search, but they can change their minds at any time, and it's more beneficial for Google if they don't have to pay another company for your attention. Also sometimes Apple gets on a privacy kick and makes tracking users harder, which Google wants to do to sell ads better, so they gotta fight that too. So the issue here is that Apple has iOS and then it has Siri, and then it has HomeKit, which all works very well together and provides a very clean unified experience. If Google didn't have an experience comparable to Apple's experience, people might leave Android for Apple, and that's bad. So products like Nest are entirely there to provide a Google ecosystem that is competitive to other tech companies' ecosystems, so that you view ads.

colinmhayes 5y ago

Every google product exists to encourage people to see more ads, even if he product isn't showing the ads. I encourage anyone to point to a google product that isn't either selling ads or trying to get people to spend more time on the internet so google can sell them more ads.

Xorlev 5y ago
Drive/Docs/Meet. Cloud. Nest. These are a few examples of (though far from the only) products completely orthogonal to ads.
- QuercusMax 5y ago
  All of Verily, Calico, and Google Health, and Fit/FitBit. The work I do on AI-based medical device infrastructure has nothing to do with ads.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > Drive/Docs/Meet How many people who are active users of these products Bing something when they need to look it up?
  - NateEag 5y ago
    I do, by way of DuckDuckGo. Granted, I only use those products because my employer uses them internally.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Drive/docs absolutely contributes to google selling ads since it brings you to their home site. I'll give you cloud and nest though.
  - Xorlev 5y ago
    How do you figure? There's no offramps from Drive or Docs into Search as far as I know. Are you saying that because they're subdomains, it somehow works to get you to ads? Docs and Drive want to sell you storage and collaboration capabilities. Not ads.