4 ms·

> My point above is not that the US is above reproach, but that it isn't disapppearing its citizens for criticizing the government or practicing different relig

> My point above is not that the US is above reproach, but that it isn't disapppearing its citizens for criticizing the government or practicing different religions or being of a specific ethnicity. Etc. To say the two countries are "equally bad" is a pro-ccp propaganda point. The US has killed their own citizen with drones, has imprisoned people who revealed government abuse and just last year arrested more than 100 journalists. https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-jailed-imprisoned/ https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-ja... So I could easily same the same about you, you are repeating a pro-CIA propaganda point. I would suggest to ask around in Latin-America, in Africa in China and even in Europe and ask people who they consider more a threat to world peace and which behaves in an arrogant, "my way or the highway", imperialistic manner. You will be very surprised and the whole worldview you were taught in your perfectly designed educational system will come crash down. Less swearing allegiance to the flag and more travelling. I hope that is not ad-hominem enough to try to ban me.

i_haz_rabies 5y ago
I think the most objective criteria to evaluate this is how many people would want to immigrate to the US and how many would want to immigrate to China.
- Sr_developer 5y ago
  The answer is MONEY, not "Freedom" or any other pablum you were taught. As economic conditions improve in China,India,even Mexico many educated people are returning. No one wants to live in a racist country when they will be treated as second-class citizens at best.
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    > or any other pablum you were taught If you want to have a civilized conversation, the first thing is to stop assuming everyone only consumes propagandistic drivel if you disagree with them. Many people, like myself, have traveled and lived in various other countries. Nowhere in my comments have I ever said the US doesn't have issues; in fact I quite frequently discuss the enormous issues the US has and so do most of the people that I know... This is a freedom that I, and the media, do have and can exercise without getting imprisoned. The reporter issue -is- quite serious and needs addressing, but is related to police abusing their power during the riots last year, not the federal or state government going to people's homes and arresting them for posting online criticism of the government or ruling party. We're free to message each other and post online about every single atrocity the US government has committed without repercussion. How can a bad situation be improved if criticizing the government is impossible? > No one wants to live in a racist country when they will be treated as second-class citizens at best. You mean like living in any homogeneous Asian country as any ethnicity except the primary one? You accuse me of not traveling, but my experience from living in S. Korea and Japan showed me that highly homogeneous countries can be wildly racist about everyone. The US is not the only country has serious racism issues, and it's a shame that I need to state that. It seems like you think the US is one entity, but depending on the city and state it can be extremely multicultural and diverse (like Chicago, my home town). Plenty of people are moving to the US still; I don't really find it a useful metric for an argument either way because it doesn't consider the origin country or the immigrant's prior situation.
    - Sr_developer 5y ago
      I know your type, "The US also has issues, but it is ruled by white people so they are manageable , it is not horrible like those 'here be dragons' lands of dark-skinned people', well no, the issues of the US are as a big as any other country, and even more,the US actively participates in creating havoc in the world. I know you think I am the lunatic here, well, see this for example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-democracy-russia-china-global-poll https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo... So ask yourself, who is right? The world is 7+ billion people, not 330 MM. And who in their right mind can take seriously a criticism from an American? it is like being called a slut by the "madame" from the whorehouse. > You mean like living in any homogeneous Asian country as any ethnicity except the primary one? How many racial minorities were killed, abused and tortured by the police in South Korea and Japan last year? How many racial minorities there are going to jail at a 400% proportion of its population? How many racial minorities there are protesting torching the country because they are being called niggers, or spics and openly insulted by the president, called rapists, bad hombres, bad people?Or being patronized by Biden : " Poor Children can be as smart as white Children" "All black people are the same"(Notice a pattern here?) Let me tell you about a Japanese racial minority, the Okinawans, whose women have been raped constantly by American GIs who are not even judged. Ask the Okinawans what do they think about the Americans? Another Pacific minority? The people in the Bikini Atolls, see how the rich, diverse, enlightened and multicultural vibrant country treated them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqoiT-RS4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqoiT-RS4A > t seems like you think the US is one entity, but depending on the city and state it can be extremely multicultural and diverse (like Chicago, my home town). So let me get this straight, you consider any Asian country as homogeneous (where more than half of the world lives and there are hundreds of ethnicities), yet Chicago is multicultural? I will tell you what the problem is: You think of American as the vanilla version of the world, so they can adapt themselves and be diverse and individual and the Asians, are the "Chinamen", the homogeneous,android-like, everybody the same. The world does not work like that. But this is a discussion that is worthless. You are a citizen of the modern Roman Empire, your world spin around "Rome" and all the roads led to it. Many more generations are needed to see a change on this hegemonic worldview.
      - 5y ago
- andrewzah 5y ago
  I don't think this is really a good metric as these sorts of decisions aren't made in a vacuum. I don't know what -would- be a good metric, but perhaps the expatriation rate, immigration rate to other countries, and brain drain rate would be good places to start.

i_haz_rabies 5y ago

I think the most objective criteria to evaluate this is how many people would want to immigrate to the US and how many would want to immigrate to China.

Sr_developer 5y ago
The answer is MONEY, not "Freedom" or any other pablum you were taught. As economic conditions improve in China,India,even Mexico many educated people are returning. No one wants to live in a racist country when they will be treated as second-class citizens at best.
- andrewzah 5y ago
  > or any other pablum you were taught If you want to have a civilized conversation, the first thing is to stop assuming everyone only consumes propagandistic drivel if you disagree with them. Many people, like myself, have traveled and lived in various other countries. Nowhere in my comments have I ever said the US doesn't have issues; in fact I quite frequently discuss the enormous issues the US has and so do most of the people that I know... This is a freedom that I, and the media, do have and can exercise without getting imprisoned. The reporter issue -is- quite serious and needs addressing, but is related to police abusing their power during the riots last year, not the federal or state government going to people's homes and arresting them for posting online criticism of the government or ruling party. We're free to message each other and post online about every single atrocity the US government has committed without repercussion. How can a bad situation be improved if criticizing the government is impossible? > No one wants to live in a racist country when they will be treated as second-class citizens at best. You mean like living in any homogeneous Asian country as any ethnicity except the primary one? You accuse me of not traveling, but my experience from living in S. Korea and Japan showed me that highly homogeneous countries can be wildly racist about everyone. The US is not the only country has serious racism issues, and it's a shame that I need to state that. It seems like you think the US is one entity, but depending on the city and state it can be extremely multicultural and diverse (like Chicago, my home town). Plenty of people are moving to the US still; I don't really find it a useful metric for an argument either way because it doesn't consider the origin country or the immigrant's prior situation.
  - Sr_developer 5y ago
    I know your type, "The US also has issues, but it is ruled by white people so they are manageable , it is not horrible like those 'here be dragons' lands of dark-skinned people', well no, the issues of the US are as a big as any other country, and even more,the US actively participates in creating havoc in the world. I know you think I am the lunatic here, well, see this for example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-democracy-russia-china-global-poll https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo... So ask yourself, who is right? The world is 7+ billion people, not 330 MM. And who in their right mind can take seriously a criticism from an American? it is like being called a slut by the "madame" from the whorehouse. > You mean like living in any homogeneous Asian country as any ethnicity except the primary one? How many racial minorities were killed, abused and tortured by the police in South Korea and Japan last year? How many racial minorities there are going to jail at a 400% proportion of its population? How many racial minorities there are protesting torching the country because they are being called niggers, or spics and openly insulted by the president, called rapists, bad hombres, bad people?Or being patronized by Biden : " Poor Children can be as smart as white Children" "All black people are the same"(Notice a pattern here?) Let me tell you about a Japanese racial minority, the Okinawans, whose women have been raped constantly by American GIs who are not even judged. Ask the Okinawans what do they think about the Americans? Another Pacific minority? The people in the Bikini Atolls, see how the rich, diverse, enlightened and multicultural vibrant country treated them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqoiT-RS4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqoiT-RS4A > t seems like you think the US is one entity, but depending on the city and state it can be extremely multicultural and diverse (like Chicago, my home town). So let me get this straight, you consider any Asian country as homogeneous (where more than half of the world lives and there are hundreds of ethnicities), yet Chicago is multicultural? I will tell you what the problem is: You think of American as the vanilla version of the world, so they can adapt themselves and be diverse and individual and the Asians, are the "Chinamen", the homogeneous,android-like, everybody the same. The world does not work like that. But this is a discussion that is worthless. You are a citizen of the modern Roman Empire, your world spin around "Rome" and all the roads led to it. Many more generations are needed to see a change on this hegemonic worldview.
    - 5y ago
andrewzah 5y ago
I don't think this is really a good metric as these sorts of decisions aren't made in a vacuum. I don't know what -would- be a good metric, but perhaps the expatriation rate, immigration rate to other countries, and brain drain rate would be good places to start.