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UX is User Experience, not User Interface. Lack of tools to do things quickly and easily with discoverability is a huge UX issue. And then the rectangle button

UX is User Experience, not User Interface. Lack of tools to do things quickly and easily with discoverability is a huge UX issue. And then the rectangle button changing to an ellipse button just because that was the most recent sub tool you used is a UX issue that is purely in the UI. I probably lost several hours to that until I understood what happened, because I couldn't find the buttons I wanted to click on and then assumed I had to look for them elsewhere etc. And it still is bad even after I learned that since everywhere I look at tutorials how to do stuff the menu looks different since they had different previously active tools so it is a pain trying to figure out what to click.

zxzax 5y ago
What you're saying doesn't really make any sense to me, that's like saying you bought a sedan and found that it didn't have a pickup bed, so now it's a UX issue because you couldn't quickly and easily figure out how to move a refrigerator with it. Not everything is going to have the same tools, or support the same workflows. Maybe that's a problem that needs solving but it can't be solved by UX designers trying to redesign the sedan -- you would just get a trailer and put the refrigerator in that. You're right about the tool menus, those are an actual UI issue, but they can be disabled. Maybe they should be disabled by default? I can't say.
- username90 5y ago
  Drawing a circle isn't a new feature, the feature already exists in the program. It is just that the workflow to use the feature is very burdensome, all they need is a button that does several of the steps at once. It wouldn't implement any new behaviour, it is just a quick button. Now, it would take some work to implement those quick buttons, sure, but that is purely an UX change it doesn't add any new capabilities to the program, it just makes some actions easier to do. Basically, the feature lacking in the program are those "quick buttons" which would make adding these simple UX fixes easy rather than burdensome engineering work.
  - zxzax 5y ago
    And I'm saying you're mistaken, that feature never really existed. Trying to hack the ellipse tool into "quick buttons" to draw circles would not be what is expected, would not match the capability of other vector drawing tools, and would probably create other UX issues in the process. But of course, if you thought that was a good idea, you could easily make a plugin that does that, and test it out for yourself.
    - username90 5y ago
      I think this discussion highlights perfectly why Gimps UX sucks. It is because the people who made it has a view on UX like you do and refuse to put in the work to fix it, with arguments such as "That isn't an UX issue" and so on. Fact is that Gimps UX sucks and people will have to live with it since it is a free product so the developers don't have any reason to do what you want. Anyway, you might be right about this issue, I am not an expert on image editing. However I do understand UX and your view on development will lead to horrible UX like what you have in Gimp. It might work great in enterprise products where you sell features and not UX, but a product intended to be used by normal users needs more work on UX for people to like them.
      - zxzax 5y ago
        I'm saying this as some who's done UX and is familiar with the problems in GIMP, there really is no quick fix that can be done here. If you view everything as a UX issue that can simply be solved by moving things around, then we can't really have a discussion because there is no meaningful distinction we can make. The major issues with GIMP are mostly on the backend. The work is being put in to fix it, but it's slow going because there are not enough people working on it. I agree with you that people would really see it as a UX improvement if there were good shape tools like photoshop has, but my point is you can't just get that by changing around the ellipse select tool. If it were that easy, somebody would have done it by now. The GIMP people I've known have said they would love to fix a lot of things but it's harder than it seems and they don't have infinite time. Just to make it a little clearer what I mean here: if there were actual shape drawing capabilities on the backend then it would be pretty easy to make any kind of circle/ellipse tool that you wanted, or set up the circle tool to do what you want by default, but those don't exist right now.

zxzax 5y ago

What you're saying doesn't really make any sense to me, that's like saying you bought a sedan and found that it didn't have a pickup bed, so now it's a UX issue because you couldn't quickly and easily figure out how to move a refrigerator with it. Not everything is going to have the same tools, or support the same workflows. Maybe that's a problem that needs solving but it can't be solved by UX designers trying to redesign the sedan -- you would just get a trailer and put the refrigerator in that. You're right about the tool menus, those are an actual UI issue, but they can be disabled. Maybe they should be disabled by default? I can't say.

username90 5y ago
Drawing a circle isn't a new feature, the feature already exists in the program. It is just that the workflow to use the feature is very burdensome, all they need is a button that does several of the steps at once. It wouldn't implement any new behaviour, it is just a quick button. Now, it would take some work to implement those quick buttons, sure, but that is purely an UX change it doesn't add any new capabilities to the program, it just makes some actions easier to do. Basically, the feature lacking in the program are those "quick buttons" which would make adding these simple UX fixes easy rather than burdensome engineering work.
- zxzax 5y ago
  And I'm saying you're mistaken, that feature never really existed. Trying to hack the ellipse tool into "quick buttons" to draw circles would not be what is expected, would not match the capability of other vector drawing tools, and would probably create other UX issues in the process. But of course, if you thought that was a good idea, you could easily make a plugin that does that, and test it out for yourself.
  - username90 5y ago
    I think this discussion highlights perfectly why Gimps UX sucks. It is because the people who made it has a view on UX like you do and refuse to put in the work to fix it, with arguments such as "That isn't an UX issue" and so on. Fact is that Gimps UX sucks and people will have to live with it since it is a free product so the developers don't have any reason to do what you want. Anyway, you might be right about this issue, I am not an expert on image editing. However I do understand UX and your view on development will lead to horrible UX like what you have in Gimp. It might work great in enterprise products where you sell features and not UX, but a product intended to be used by normal users needs more work on UX for people to like them.
    - zxzax 5y ago
      I'm saying this as some who's done UX and is familiar with the problems in GIMP, there really is no quick fix that can be done here. If you view everything as a UX issue that can simply be solved by moving things around, then we can't really have a discussion because there is no meaningful distinction we can make. The major issues with GIMP are mostly on the backend. The work is being put in to fix it, but it's slow going because there are not enough people working on it. I agree with you that people would really see it as a UX improvement if there were good shape tools like photoshop has, but my point is you can't just get that by changing around the ellipse select tool. If it were that easy, somebody would have done it by now. The GIMP people I've known have said they would love to fix a lot of things but it's harder than it seems and they don't have infinite time. Just to make it a little clearer what I mean here: if there were actual shape drawing capabilities on the backend then it would be pretty easy to make any kind of circle/ellipse tool that you wanted, or set up the circle tool to do what you want by default, but those don't exist right now.