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I've seen more blogs recently use that quote in a negative way, even though it's taken out of context, and the original author of that quote meant it as an over

I've seen more blogs recently use that quote in a negative way, even though it's taken out of context, and the original author of that quote meant it as an overall positive thing (for the world).

jrockway 15y ago
Indeed. A lot of people on the Internet have what I call "Joe the Plumber" syndrome; they imagine themselves as though they are better off than they are, and then get upset when something helps the little guy. In this case, people are upset that there is no money in developing your own phone OS, because you can't compete with Free. But in reality, most of these people don't make phone operating systems, but they do buy phones. So Android ends up being great for them: cheaper fun electronic toys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber
- yblokhin 15y ago
  "Joe the Plumber" syndrome is often a strong indicator of that person taking Ayn Rand way too seriously.
- walexander 15y ago
  I'm not sure this debate is likely to go anywhere, but what exactly is wrong with people thinking they are better off than they are, or aspiring to be? If people don't want help, why force it upon them? Disclaimer: I love Android and 100% of my slates are running it. I love that it's free. Check my profile, it's all I do all day. I'm just calling out your "Joe the Plumber" reference.
  - yblokhin 15y ago
    It's wrong for people to think they are better off than they are because such thinking leads to decisions that will hurt Joes in the end. It's exactly Joes who shoot themselves in the foot by thinking that it's an each man for himself world.
    - gabeh 15y ago
      "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." --Steinbeck
      - CamperBob 15y ago
        I keep waiting for someone to explain why this is a bad self-image to possess, but it never seems to happen.
        joshes 15y ago
        The parent comment never passed judgment on this self-image, just merely asserted that it was pervasive among Americans.
        CamperBob 15y ago
        Steinbeck clearly didn't mean it as a compliment, though, so I have to assume the same of anyone who just drops the quote in a thread with no elaboration.
        cema 15y ago
        It's a great attitude. People tend to use their political prejudices and agendas instead of rational arguments.
        StavrosK 15y ago
        I'm not sure I'll be able to change your mind if it's not evident to you why that is a bad self-image, but here goes: First, you have to define "bad". It's not bad for the planet, or bad for society as a whole. It's bad for the person who has that belief, because it leads him to act against his self-interest (as a poor person) and making him act for the interest of richer people. Shouting "Why should the rich pay higher taxes so the poor can get better healthcare?" when you're yourself poor isn't "good" for you, is it?
        15y ago
  - jrockway 15y ago
    I'm calling out your calling out of the Joe the Plumber reference :) Here's how I see Joe: he gets upset that Obama is going to raise taxes on the rich to give benefits to the poor, because he thinks he's rich. But as it turns out, he's poor: he makes $40,000 a year and would greatly benefit from Obama's tax cuts. This confuses me not because of the politics, but because he is acting against his own self-interest because he thinks his self-interest is something that it's not. If he did own his plumbing company, he'd see a little less profit due to Obama's tax increase. But he doesn't own the company and probably will never will; he wasn't even a licensed plumber and he left his job there. To apply this to phones, people imagine themselves in the position of being a phone software company, when they are really phone developers or users. In this case, Android is good, because it means more users will be using their phone, and that means more apps or more users buying your apps.
    - mmatants 15y ago
      This is getting off-topic, but it's possible to oppose taxes to the rich without fancying oneself to be rich. The above Joe the Plumber description paints a picture of a delusional redneck. That's not necessary to debate taxation policy. EDIT: to bring this closer to topic: is it really "transfer of wealth" if the wealth was never really there? Most new cool gadgets get commoditized. If anything, Android is probably one of the better-designed systems under the hood (at least as far as the app API goes). Either way, the first smartphones were themselves incremental improvements and iterations over prior things like PDAs, etc.
      - Tichy 15y ago
        Wasn't Joe the Plumber a real person?
        uxp 15y ago
        He was, and was actually upset that Obama was going to raise taxes on wealthy people (250k+ incomes), and actually raised a stink about it. Later on, the media dug into his life and realized that he had a very basic plumbing license, did not actually intend to buy a business he had mentioned he was going to do, and only made about 40k per year (and had a judgement lien against his income for failure to pay taxes). The same link as above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber#Personal_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber#Personal_contro... The comparison to Obama's tax plan was not off topic, because "Joe the Plumber" was in fact characterized and quoted by the media as someone who was going to have his life changed for the worse due to Obama's tax plan, when in reality, nothing in his life would have changed, but he still argued against the tax plan.
- beedogs 15y ago
  I like to call them "aspirationally wealthy".

I've seen more blogs recently use that quote in a negative way, even though it's taken out of context, and the original author of that quote meant it as an overall positive thing (for the world).

jrockway 15y ago

Indeed. A lot of people on the Internet have what I call "Joe the Plumber" syndrome; they imagine themselves as though they are better off than they are, and then get upset when something helps the little guy. In this case, people are upset that there is no money in developing your own phone OS, because you can't compete with Free. But in reality, most of these people don't make phone operating systems, but they do buy phones. So Android ends up being great for them: cheaper fun electronic toys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber

yblokhin 15y ago
"Joe the Plumber" syndrome is often a strong indicator of that person taking Ayn Rand way too seriously.
walexander 15y ago
I'm not sure this debate is likely to go anywhere, but what exactly is wrong with people thinking they are better off than they are, or aspiring to be? If people don't want help, why force it upon them? Disclaimer: I love Android and 100% of my slates are running it. I love that it's free. Check my profile, it's all I do all day. I'm just calling out your "Joe the Plumber" reference.
- yblokhin 15y ago
  It's wrong for people to think they are better off than they are because such thinking leads to decisions that will hurt Joes in the end. It's exactly Joes who shoot themselves in the foot by thinking that it's an each man for himself world.
  - gabeh 15y ago
    "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." --Steinbeck
    - CamperBob 15y ago
      I keep waiting for someone to explain why this is a bad self-image to possess, but it never seems to happen.
      - joshes 15y ago
        The parent comment never passed judgment on this self-image, just merely asserted that it was pervasive among Americans.
        CamperBob 15y ago
        Steinbeck clearly didn't mean it as a compliment, though, so I have to assume the same of anyone who just drops the quote in a thread with no elaboration.
      - cema 15y ago
        It's a great attitude. People tend to use their political prejudices and agendas instead of rational arguments.
      - StavrosK 15y ago
        I'm not sure I'll be able to change your mind if it's not evident to you why that is a bad self-image, but here goes: First, you have to define "bad". It's not bad for the planet, or bad for society as a whole. It's bad for the person who has that belief, because it leads him to act against his self-interest (as a poor person) and making him act for the interest of richer people. Shouting "Why should the rich pay higher taxes so the poor can get better healthcare?" when you're yourself poor isn't "good" for you, is it?
        15y ago
- jrockway 15y ago
  I'm calling out your calling out of the Joe the Plumber reference :) Here's how I see Joe: he gets upset that Obama is going to raise taxes on the rich to give benefits to the poor, because he thinks he's rich. But as it turns out, he's poor: he makes $40,000 a year and would greatly benefit from Obama's tax cuts. This confuses me not because of the politics, but because he is acting against his own self-interest because he thinks his self-interest is something that it's not. If he did own his plumbing company, he'd see a little less profit due to Obama's tax increase. But he doesn't own the company and probably will never will; he wasn't even a licensed plumber and he left his job there. To apply this to phones, people imagine themselves in the position of being a phone software company, when they are really phone developers or users. In this case, Android is good, because it means more users will be using their phone, and that means more apps or more users buying your apps.
  - mmatants 15y ago
    This is getting off-topic, but it's possible to oppose taxes to the rich without fancying oneself to be rich. The above Joe the Plumber description paints a picture of a delusional redneck. That's not necessary to debate taxation policy. EDIT: to bring this closer to topic: is it really "transfer of wealth" if the wealth was never really there? Most new cool gadgets get commoditized. If anything, Android is probably one of the better-designed systems under the hood (at least as far as the app API goes). Either way, the first smartphones were themselves incremental improvements and iterations over prior things like PDAs, etc.
    - Tichy 15y ago
      Wasn't Joe the Plumber a real person?
      - uxp 15y ago
        He was, and was actually upset that Obama was going to raise taxes on wealthy people (250k+ incomes), and actually raised a stink about it. Later on, the media dug into his life and realized that he had a very basic plumbing license, did not actually intend to buy a business he had mentioned he was going to do, and only made about 40k per year (and had a judgement lien against his income for failure to pay taxes). The same link as above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber#Personal_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_Plumber#Personal_contro... The comparison to Obama's tax plan was not off topic, because "Joe the Plumber" was in fact characterized and quoted by the media as someone who was going to have his life changed for the worse due to Obama's tax plan, when in reality, nothing in his life would have changed, but he still argued against the tax plan.
beedogs 15y ago
I like to call them "aspirationally wealthy".