8 ms·

as a student in boston where brokers take 1 month rent for doing exactly nothing, i welcome the idea of automating away these leaches. edit: fb marketplace m

as a student in boston where brokers take 1 month rent for doing exactly *nothing*, i welcome the idea of automating away these leaches. edit: fb marketplace might get the brokers first, most of my friends found their places via landlords posting there

Trias11 5y ago
Advertising platforms love middlemen beause they feed each other. Both are parasitic entities that cause more harm to end users than benefits. The problem is that they control the information flow and supported by governments, hence we cannot eliminate them completely but can try to keep them at the bay using technology we can control
boringg 5y ago
Your comments are the perfect example of the short term positive news wave they can generate. Thank you for validating.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  Not all brokers provide value to the renter. In "hot" markets like New York, a lot of the time they don't. They render a lot of value to the landlord, however. Taking nice photos, dealing with unqualified applicants, showing the property, etc.
- seneca 5y ago
  > Your comments are the perfect example of the short term positive news wave they can generate. Thank you for validating. This kind of lazy snark comment degrades this community.
  - kreeben 5y ago
    Absolute free speech, however, empowers this community. I say, let each and everyone speak their mind, even the snark.
    - seneca 5y ago
      Indeed, I agree. By no means am I advocating the removal of their ability to post, simply using my own to point out that perhaps they ought to think a bit more about their content.
    - jacoblambda 5y ago
      Oh sure it does but that same free speech lets users call out speech they find provides little or negative value to the community. It'd be different if said comment was deleted/removed but users downvoting it for not being conducive to conversation and calling it out as needless and low value isn't impeding the free speech by any means. Free speech != speech free from criticism.
  - boringg 5y ago
    How does it degrade? It was exactly what I was saying happens and someone exactly said the comment. It's 100% validating. In fact it is your lazy finger wagging comment that degrades this community.
    - cmeacham98 5y ago
      Your comments all presuppose the existing broker solution is superior and people just haven't found the problems with Caretaker yet (and some vague and unfounded speculation about a future price increase). Consider that perhaps Caretaker is taking customers from brokers because they actually provide a better and/or cheaper service. Maybe the positive comments aren't a short term buzz but instead good reviews of a good product.
      - boringg 5y ago
        No my comments do not presuppose the broker solution being better. My comments describe the typical playbook for VC funded companies going into a market place with a well hated incumbent. The cheaper services that Caretaker currently provide are subsidized by private capital and only will provide a positive return for that private capital once they have a dominant position in the market at which point they have the power dynamic to raise prices. My comments look to the longer term future and take a quick look at whats getting replaced. There is no supposition that the broker solution is better - more that the Caretaker solution has a predictable playbook in which we will see if the long term solution is indeed better. The value that was accrued across broker (As hated as they may be) provide some jobs, the value in caretaker accrues across some staff but mostly rolls up to the investors - providing it is a successful outcome.
- sudopluto 5y ago
  i don't care if a tech company extracts a fee, as 1) the process will likely be much better then texting a broker: virtual apartment layouts, ability to see profiles for roommates, no bait and switch of "that unit just got taken buuuuuuuuuuuttttt i have this crappy one that is still available just for you!" 2) the fee they charge will be less than brokers. no way would someone handover a month's rent to some company who's only interaction with you is via chatbot ---- edit ---- i have nothing against brokers. but if these companies innovate and force the brokers to actually provide value again in the internet age, then that's a win for everyone.
  - nightpool 5y ago
    I can 100% imagine tech companies doing all of those things you mention hating brokers for—not having virtual apartment layouts, not having the ability to choose your roommates, using dark patterns to try and bait and switch you into a crappier unit... The difference isn't between brokers / tech companies, it's between a new market entrant (who is trying to convey a user-friendly atmosphere to attract userss/good press) vs an ossified market where brokers have no incentive to cater to renters, despite the fact that they're ostensibly working for them, since they're chosen exclusively by landlords. Five years later, there's nothing preventing the tech companies from working in exactly the same way—the reality is that any company that's chosen exclusively by the landlord and not accountable to the tenants is going to face exactly the same set of incentives, since supply-side shortages dominate the urban housing market.
  - neilv 5y ago
    > the fee they charge will be less than brokers. no way would someone handover a month's rent to some company who's only interaction with you is via chatbot In Boston, I would've thought there's no way that someone would pay thousands of dollars of a broker fee for merely unlocking the door so you can see the place for literally a few minutes (and who expects you to bring your checkbook and write a deposit within 5 minutes, because they've scheduled another person to show up 5 minutes later)... but that's the setup, and many people have to play along with that. You wouldn't think you'd pay 30% cut off the top to an app store, for the privilege of being in app search results, and also to be at the mercy of whatever backstabbing it might do to you in the future (e.g., when they decide to compete with your service, or a partner of theirs does), but that's the setup, and many people have to play along with that.
mattzito 5y ago
Brokers taking money from renters is ridiculous and should be done away with. Landlords hiring brokers to deal with vetting and showing an apartment and all those logistics seems pretty reasonable and up to the landlord if they feel it’s worth the value.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Depending on cost, broker might not be bad deal. If the general administrative maters are taken care of, that is showing the property and having good contract template and sorting signatures and so on.
- duped 5y ago
  Brokers are always taking away money from renters, in one way or another. In other cities property managers do the same thing, but they skim off the top of the rent checks and provide more services. But really all the middlemen in housing are awful.
- tenpies 5y ago
  Spoiler: the landlord is just passing that cost to the tenant. It's like in Canada where tenants can hire a broker for "free" to find a rental. However the broker just collects 1 month rent from the landlord. Do you think the landlord just absorbs the cost? No, the quoted rent was just 8.4% higher when the broker mentioned he was a broker.
  - ipqk 5y ago
    Yes, but the landlord can find cheaper brokers, or do it themselves to save money. There's now an efficient market. When the burden is paid by the renter, there's no efficient market because renter has no choice in the broker and the owner doesn't care.
    - koolba 5y ago
      Either way the renter is paying the cost and the landlord is losing a chunk of the spread. It’s no different than the ridiculous notion that “the seller pays broker’s commission”. It’s baked into the price and the buyer is still paying it, otherwise a home would cost X% less.
thekid314 5y ago
Yeah, as a fellow Boston renter, facebook and craigslist are the way to go. Still no human required, no fees, good response rate.
bdowling 5y ago
> as a student in boston where brokers take 1 month rent for doing exactly nothing At least in California, the broker’s fee is an expense of the landlord that is not directly passed on to the tenant moving in. If the cost is passed on, it’s hidden in the cost of rent. Also, the landlord can claw back part of the fee if the tenant moves out before one year. So, it makes more sense as a landlord expense.

as a student in boston where brokers take 1 month rent for doing exactly *nothing*, i welcome the idea of automating away these leaches. edit: fb marketplace m

Trias11 5y ago

Advertising platforms love middlemen beause they feed each other. Both are parasitic entities that cause more harm to end users than benefits. The problem is that they control the information flow and supported by governments, hence we cannot eliminate them completely but can try to keep them at the bay using technology we can control

boringg 5y ago

Your comments are the perfect example of the short term positive news wave they can generate. Thank you for validating.

nerdponx 5y ago
Not all brokers provide value to the renter. In "hot" markets like New York, a lot of the time they don't. They render a lot of value to the landlord, however. Taking nice photos, dealing with unqualified applicants, showing the property, etc.
seneca 5y ago
> Your comments are the perfect example of the short term positive news wave they can generate. Thank you for validating. This kind of lazy snark comment degrades this community.
- kreeben 5y ago
  Absolute free speech, however, empowers this community. I say, let each and everyone speak their mind, even the snark.
  - seneca 5y ago
    Indeed, I agree. By no means am I advocating the removal of their ability to post, simply using my own to point out that perhaps they ought to think a bit more about their content.
  - jacoblambda 5y ago
    Oh sure it does but that same free speech lets users call out speech they find provides little or negative value to the community. It'd be different if said comment was deleted/removed but users downvoting it for not being conducive to conversation and calling it out as needless and low value isn't impeding the free speech by any means. Free speech != speech free from criticism.
- boringg 5y ago
  How does it degrade? It was exactly what I was saying happens and someone exactly said the comment. It's 100% validating. In fact it is your lazy finger wagging comment that degrades this community.
  - cmeacham98 5y ago
    Your comments all presuppose the existing broker solution is superior and people just haven't found the problems with Caretaker yet (and some vague and unfounded speculation about a future price increase). Consider that perhaps Caretaker is taking customers from brokers because they actually provide a better and/or cheaper service. Maybe the positive comments aren't a short term buzz but instead good reviews of a good product.
    - boringg 5y ago
      No my comments do not presuppose the broker solution being better. My comments describe the typical playbook for VC funded companies going into a market place with a well hated incumbent. The cheaper services that Caretaker currently provide are subsidized by private capital and only will provide a positive return for that private capital once they have a dominant position in the market at which point they have the power dynamic to raise prices. My comments look to the longer term future and take a quick look at whats getting replaced. There is no supposition that the broker solution is better - more that the Caretaker solution has a predictable playbook in which we will see if the long term solution is indeed better. The value that was accrued across broker (As hated as they may be) provide some jobs, the value in caretaker accrues across some staff but mostly rolls up to the investors - providing it is a successful outcome.
sudopluto 5y ago
i don't care if a tech company extracts a fee, as 1) the process will likely be much better then texting a broker: virtual apartment layouts, ability to see profiles for roommates, no bait and switch of "that unit just got taken buuuuuuuuuuuttttt i have this crappy one that is still available just for you!" 2) the fee they charge will be less than brokers. no way would someone handover a month's rent to some company who's only interaction with you is via chatbot ---- edit ---- i have nothing against brokers. but if these companies innovate and force the brokers to actually provide value again in the internet age, then that's a win for everyone.
- nightpool 5y ago
  I can 100% imagine tech companies doing all of those things you mention hating brokers for—not having virtual apartment layouts, not having the ability to choose your roommates, using dark patterns to try and bait and switch you into a crappier unit... The difference isn't between brokers / tech companies, it's between a new market entrant (who is trying to convey a user-friendly atmosphere to attract userss/good press) vs an ossified market where brokers have no incentive to cater to renters, despite the fact that they're ostensibly working for them, since they're chosen exclusively by landlords. Five years later, there's nothing preventing the tech companies from working in exactly the same way—the reality is that any company that's chosen exclusively by the landlord and not accountable to the tenants is going to face exactly the same set of incentives, since supply-side shortages dominate the urban housing market.
- neilv 5y ago
  > the fee they charge will be less than brokers. no way would someone handover a month's rent to some company who's only interaction with you is via chatbot In Boston, I would've thought there's no way that someone would pay thousands of dollars of a broker fee for merely unlocking the door so you can see the place for literally a few minutes (and who expects you to bring your checkbook and write a deposit within 5 minutes, because they've scheduled another person to show up 5 minutes later)... but that's the setup, and many people have to play along with that. You wouldn't think you'd pay 30% cut off the top to an app store, for the privilege of being in app search results, and also to be at the mercy of whatever backstabbing it might do to you in the future (e.g., when they decide to compete with your service, or a partner of theirs does), but that's the setup, and many people have to play along with that.

mattzito 5y ago

Brokers taking money from renters is ridiculous and should be done away with. Landlords hiring brokers to deal with vetting and showing an apartment and all those logistics seems pretty reasonable and up to the landlord if they feel it’s worth the value.

Ekaros 5y ago
Depending on cost, broker might not be bad deal. If the general administrative maters are taken care of, that is showing the property and having good contract template and sorting signatures and so on.
duped 5y ago
Brokers are always taking away money from renters, in one way or another. In other cities property managers do the same thing, but they skim off the top of the rent checks and provide more services. But really all the middlemen in housing are awful.
tenpies 5y ago
Spoiler: the landlord is just passing that cost to the tenant. It's like in Canada where tenants can hire a broker for "free" to find a rental. However the broker just collects 1 month rent from the landlord. Do you think the landlord just absorbs the cost? No, the quoted rent was just 8.4% higher when the broker mentioned he was a broker.
- ipqk 5y ago
  Yes, but the landlord can find cheaper brokers, or do it themselves to save money. There's now an efficient market. When the burden is paid by the renter, there's no efficient market because renter has no choice in the broker and the owner doesn't care.
  - koolba 5y ago
    Either way the renter is paying the cost and the landlord is losing a chunk of the spread. It’s no different than the ridiculous notion that “the seller pays broker’s commission”. It’s baked into the price and the buyer is still paying it, otherwise a home would cost X% less.

thekid314 5y ago

Yeah, as a fellow Boston renter, facebook and craigslist are the way to go. Still no human required, no fees, good response rate.

bdowling 5y ago

> as a student in boston where brokers take 1 month rent for doing exactly nothing At least in California, the broker’s fee is an expense of the landlord that is not directly passed on to the tenant moving in. If the cost is passed on, it’s hidden in the cost of rent. Also, the landlord can claw back part of the fee if the tenant moves out before one year. So, it makes more sense as a landlord expense.