8 ms·

grellas, you're the man when it comes to assiduous comments on legal topics, but why this article? It's just a bunch of hard-nosed Valley boardroom hot air tha

by pak 15y ago

grellas, you're the man when it comes to assiduous comments on legal topics, but why this article? It's just a bunch of hard-nosed Valley boardroom hot air that namedrops from the NASDAQ-100 and tells middle america to suck it up. The only salient point was that the government has no easy way of producing more jobs, but there's no solution offered and it's buried in a sea of other BS. "Hey poor and struggling unemployed Americans, you need to find new skills?" Seriously, Forbes needed to run a whole article dedicated to this? A much better take would be an examination of why our education system churns out so many college grads with few marketable skills. Or something that balances it with their viewpoint: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/16/growing-up-then-going-home/ http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/16/growing-up-t... This submission is just a pile of inflammatory linkbait that offers nothing new to the people that would agree with it, and enrages those who disagree by using such caustic language.

WalterBright 15y ago
>A much better take would be an examination of why our education system churns out so many college grads with few marketable skills. Queue the recent discussion about rampant cheating in college. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2774254 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2774254
- derleth 15y ago
  > Queue I'd understand this better if people didn't always pick the longer word when the short one would be correct.
  - john_b 15y ago
    "The most important principle on HN, though, is to make thoughtful comments. Thoughtful in both senses: both civil and substantial." "Empty comments can be ok if they're positive. There's nothing wrong with submitting a comment saying just "Thanks." What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling." http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
    - derleth 15y ago
      I am trying to be helpful: I'm trying to help someone learn English. How is that negative?
  - sixtofour 15y ago
    I have seen grammar and spelling comments given in the spirit of helpfulness, but this was not one of them, and adds nothing. My comment adds very little more than that, but I'd like to remind people that many very smart engineers and business workers have a terrible grasp of formal English, yet they get the job done and more. WalterBright's comment was short, but pointed to more information, and was a potentially useful comment. The discussion should be about the content of his comment. The fact that he used the wrong word is virtually irrelevant, we all knew what he meant. Yes, if you have a strong grasp of formal English you do make yourself seem more credible, especially in a formal context. But it's not the thing to focus on. Not here. S/N on HN is amazingly high, but it is still a casual forum, and we should all cut each other generous slack. Written with helpful intention. :)
    - derleth 15y ago
      So attempting to help someone learn English isn't helpful? That seems odd.
      - scythe 15y ago
        You didn't even tell him the right word -- if you wanted to help him learn English, you might say something to the effect of: queue -- noun. A first-in, first-out data structure, such as a supermarket line, or processes to be scheduled naively. cue -- verb. To prepare for, to bring up, to introduce, typically used as a command. Also noun. an indication that it is time to do something, cf. "that's our cue!". Also used in the phrase "on cue", meaning timely.
        WalterBright 15y ago
        Ah, I see. I misspelled cue as queue. That was a mistake. I erroneously thought the original comment meant I should have used the word "see". I stand corrected.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        The thing that bugs me here is that if you honestly consider it, in some situations either word could be used for more or less the same effect. For example: "Cue the complaints". Surely "Queue the complaints.", meaning that the complaints should start lining up, gets across the same meaning (which is of course "oh great, here come complaints"). This doesn't always work of course ("That's our queue" has an entirely different meaning), however where I see most complaints about "mis-usage", either actually works.
  - sixtofour 15y ago
    An indication that you edited this would have been helpful. My other reply to you makes less sense now. Yours in helpfulness, -- sixtofour
  - ScottBurson 15y ago
    Thanks for revising your comment. Unfortunately I had already downvoted it.
  - chernevik 15y ago
    The British "queue up" when joining a line in wait for something. As do my print jobs. The comment is submitting a topic for next consideration, so what's wrong the usage here?
    - mikeryan 15y ago
      Its traditionally "Cue" which can be a reminder , so "Cue the current thread" means "take a look at this current thread" not "get in line for this thread". I say this having read the original term phonetically and not even realizing the mistake which is likely common and really didn't need to be editorialized.
  - WalterBright 15y ago
    I believe this particular usage of queue is correct english. You can see it on the TV show "So You Think You Can Dance" where Nigel will often say "queue music" meaning "start the music." 'Queue' is not quite a direct replacement for 'see', there is an additional nuance that what follows it is obvious or inevitable, which is why I used it. I also understand that many HN readers are not native English speakers, and have varying levels of mastery of the language. I would also agree that obscure usage of high falutin' words for the purpose of peacocking is annoying. But using them to add color and nuance is appropriate.
    - sixtofour 15y ago
      "I believe this particular usage of queue is correct english. You can see it on the TV show "So You Think You Can Dance" where Nigel will often say "queue music" meaning "start the music." In the way that you used it, I believe it was wrong. "Cue whatever ..." comes from movie and other media production, as in "Cue the Gimp!" It's a notice that the actor playing the Gimp should assume his next physical location in the production and be ready to act. See scythe's explanation. This kind of mistake is very common, and comes from having heard phrases without having seen them in print. We then fit whatever written word we're most familiar with, or assume, on to the phrase. I'm guessing that's what happened here. The analogue is reading an unfamiliar name or word and then, never having heard it in speech, not knowing how to pronounce it. This happens to me enough to notice.
    - astrec 15y ago
      It's probably clear enough that the word you were searching for is cue, but it strikes me that in the age of Instapaper, ReadItLater and their ilk, your use of queue isn't entirely off the mark.
sixtofour 15y ago
> "Hey poor and struggling unemployed Americans, you need to find new skills?" Seriously, Forbes needed to run a whole article dedicated to this? That is exactly the message that the unemployed and the rest of the country need to hear and take to heart. No business should expected to take on people unskilled for a job. Some businesses will do so, to grow talent, and some of those will show an ROI, but no business should be expected to do so. Given that, people do need to suck it up and learn new skills. The article made a good argument for that, and did it in the context of the new reality. Some people won't be able to develop new needed skills, for various reasons. For some people technology and society will just move faster than they can keep up with. Others have some other impediment. As this trend continues, we need to get better as a society at dealing with those people.
- ChuckMcM 15y ago
  Yes, I believe three things have to be true: 1) We have to be clear that to be employed you need new skills (trades or science or engineering) 2) We have to find a way to encourage both the creation of skills training programs and a way to enable folks to take advantage of them. 3) We should start providing resources so that kids in school today understand that we're not 'forcing' them to go to school, they should go to school so that they can find gainful employment later (or entry into a tradeskill program). Serious business.
- pak 15y ago
  >That is exactly the message that the unemployed and the rest of the country need to hear and take to heart. I bet they and the lady at Rite-Aid regularly read Forbes magazine, right? Don't kid yourself--this article is meant for the echo-chamber. And that's why I think it's a waste of space.
  - sixtofour 15y ago
    The discussion can be started anywhere. Most helpful when it eventually (if it hasn't already) trickles down to the non-Forbes reading masses. If nothing else the article seeds a talking point for Forbes readers.
- 15y ago
grellas 15y ago
The "blame tech" theme is what struck me - in all its appalling wrongness (see my sharply critical comments on some vapid assumptions made in a like piece that ran on HN yesterday: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2770994 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2770994).

by pak 15y ago

WalterBright 15y ago

>A much better take would be an examination of why our education system churns out so many college grads with few marketable skills. Queue the recent discussion about rampant cheating in college. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2774254 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2774254

derleth 15y ago
> Queue I'd understand this better if people didn't always pick the longer word when the short one would be correct.
- john_b 15y ago
  "The most important principle on HN, though, is to make thoughtful comments. Thoughtful in both senses: both civil and substantial." "Empty comments can be ok if they're positive. There's nothing wrong with submitting a comment saying just "Thanks." What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling." http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
  - derleth 15y ago
    I am trying to be helpful: I'm trying to help someone learn English. How is that negative?
- sixtofour 15y ago
  I have seen grammar and spelling comments given in the spirit of helpfulness, but this was not one of them, and adds nothing. My comment adds very little more than that, but I'd like to remind people that many very smart engineers and business workers have a terrible grasp of formal English, yet they get the job done and more. WalterBright's comment was short, but pointed to more information, and was a potentially useful comment. The discussion should be about the content of his comment. The fact that he used the wrong word is virtually irrelevant, we all knew what he meant. Yes, if you have a strong grasp of formal English you do make yourself seem more credible, especially in a formal context. But it's not the thing to focus on. Not here. S/N on HN is amazingly high, but it is still a casual forum, and we should all cut each other generous slack. Written with helpful intention. :)
  - derleth 15y ago
    So attempting to help someone learn English isn't helpful? That seems odd.
    - scythe 15y ago
      You didn't even tell him the right word -- if you wanted to help him learn English, you might say something to the effect of: queue -- noun. A first-in, first-out data structure, such as a supermarket line, or processes to be scheduled naively. cue -- verb. To prepare for, to bring up, to introduce, typically used as a command. Also noun. an indication that it is time to do something, cf. "that's our cue!". Also used in the phrase "on cue", meaning timely.
      - WalterBright 15y ago
        Ah, I see. I misspelled cue as queue. That was a mistake. I erroneously thought the original comment meant I should have used the word "see". I stand corrected.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        The thing that bugs me here is that if you honestly consider it, in some situations either word could be used for more or less the same effect. For example: "Cue the complaints". Surely "Queue the complaints.", meaning that the complaints should start lining up, gets across the same meaning (which is of course "oh great, here come complaints"). This doesn't always work of course ("That's our queue" has an entirely different meaning), however where I see most complaints about "mis-usage", either actually works.
- sixtofour 15y ago
  An indication that you edited this would have been helpful. My other reply to you makes less sense now. Yours in helpfulness, -- sixtofour
- ScottBurson 15y ago
  Thanks for revising your comment. Unfortunately I had already downvoted it.
- chernevik 15y ago
  The British "queue up" when joining a line in wait for something. As do my print jobs. The comment is submitting a topic for next consideration, so what's wrong the usage here?
  - mikeryan 15y ago
    Its traditionally "Cue" which can be a reminder , so "Cue the current thread" means "take a look at this current thread" not "get in line for this thread". I say this having read the original term phonetically and not even realizing the mistake which is likely common and really didn't need to be editorialized.
- WalterBright 15y ago
  I believe this particular usage of queue is correct english. You can see it on the TV show "So You Think You Can Dance" where Nigel will often say "queue music" meaning "start the music." 'Queue' is not quite a direct replacement for 'see', there is an additional nuance that what follows it is obvious or inevitable, which is why I used it. I also understand that many HN readers are not native English speakers, and have varying levels of mastery of the language. I would also agree that obscure usage of high falutin' words for the purpose of peacocking is annoying. But using them to add color and nuance is appropriate.
  - sixtofour 15y ago
    "I believe this particular usage of queue is correct english. You can see it on the TV show "So You Think You Can Dance" where Nigel will often say "queue music" meaning "start the music." In the way that you used it, I believe it was wrong. "Cue whatever ..." comes from movie and other media production, as in "Cue the Gimp!" It's a notice that the actor playing the Gimp should assume his next physical location in the production and be ready to act. See scythe's explanation. This kind of mistake is very common, and comes from having heard phrases without having seen them in print. We then fit whatever written word we're most familiar with, or assume, on to the phrase. I'm guessing that's what happened here. The analogue is reading an unfamiliar name or word and then, never having heard it in speech, not knowing how to pronounce it. This happens to me enough to notice.
  - astrec 15y ago
    It's probably clear enough that the word you were searching for is cue, but it strikes me that in the age of Instapaper, ReadItLater and their ilk, your use of queue isn't entirely off the mark.

sixtofour 15y ago

> "Hey poor and struggling unemployed Americans, you need to find new skills?" Seriously, Forbes needed to run a whole article dedicated to this? That is exactly the message that the unemployed and the rest of the country need to hear and take to heart. No business should expected to take on people unskilled for a job. Some businesses will do so, to grow talent, and some of those will show an ROI, but no business should be expected to do so. Given that, people do need to suck it up and learn new skills. The article made a good argument for that, and did it in the context of the new reality. Some people won't be able to develop new needed skills, for various reasons. For some people technology and society will just move faster than they can keep up with. Others have some other impediment. As this trend continues, we need to get better as a society at dealing with those people.

ChuckMcM 15y ago
Yes, I believe three things have to be true: 1) We have to be clear that to be employed you need new skills (trades or science or engineering) 2) We have to find a way to encourage both the creation of skills training programs and a way to enable folks to take advantage of them. 3) We should start providing resources so that kids in school today understand that we're not 'forcing' them to go to school, they should go to school so that they can find gainful employment later (or entry into a tradeskill program). Serious business.
pak 15y ago
>That is exactly the message that the unemployed and the rest of the country need to hear and take to heart. I bet they and the lady at Rite-Aid regularly read Forbes magazine, right? Don't kid yourself--this article is meant for the echo-chamber. And that's why I think it's a waste of space.
- sixtofour 15y ago
  The discussion can be started anywhere. Most helpful when it eventually (if it hasn't already) trickles down to the non-Forbes reading masses. If nothing else the article seeds a talking point for Forbes readers.
15y ago

grellas 15y ago

The "blame tech" theme is what struck me - in all its appalling wrongness (see my sharply critical comments on some vapid assumptions made in a like piece that ran on HN yesterday: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2770994 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2770994).