4 ms·

Things like SproutCore really are the future of the internet. Within five years, I think the true web operating system will be born; and it's not like YouOS or

by dcurtis 18y ago

Things like SproutCore really are the future of the internet. Within five years, I think the true web operating system will be born; and it's not like YouOS or any of those other pseudo operating systems in browsers. Why do you need contextual menus and a proprietary file system inside a browser? That's what the desktop operating system is for. The internet operating system is going to be driven by these richly interactive and dynamic web applications built on top of Javascript in a web browser. Finally, it seems people are starting to realize that there's no reason for the user interaction and interface gap between desktop and web applications. Sadly, even though the internet is relatively young, the interface paradigms of how web apps are supposed to be built have already been engrained in the minds of web developers. Still, I hope someday there will little difference between a Cocoa app and a Web app. MobileMe and 280Slides are just the first batch of these.

dualogy 18y ago
Agree, though I also think: - SproutCore may not be the best, most persuasive or most powerful example of / driving force behind this - this evolution will see less apps mimicking native desktop-OS-imposed widgetry (like 280slides trying to look like MacOS), resulting in a soup of shades-of-gray --- and more like the many usability-centred, colourful web apps out there. Desktop apps will rather tend to mimick that than the other way around. - There is no good reason for 280Slides and other Office-on-the-Web solutions to so closely resemble the desktop experience of 90s-style applications (other than, perhaps, customer expectations and user acceptance). GUI is something that can, and should be radically rethought and evolved, all-the-time.
- pxlpshr 18y ago
  I agree... a friend turned me onto EXT, and it's quite impressive but hardly gets the same attention and coverage as some of the other frameworks simply due to its cost (which is extremely high! tears). http://extjs.com/products/extjs/ http://extjs.com/products/extjs/ http://extjs.com/deploy/dev/examples/desktop/desktop.html http://extjs.com/deploy/dev/examples/desktop/desktop.html
  - nickb 18y ago
    You might wanna read this: http://pablotron.org/?cid=1556 http://pablotron.org/?cid=1556 and this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9878693-16.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9878693-16.html
    - andreyf 18y ago
      No, it's not completely Open Source, but it is if you pay up, or if you're not making money off it. What's all the confusion? I think it's a clever move ... the result is more economically feasible than "real" open source, and a lot more libre than secret source.
  - michaelneale 18y ago
    yeah its a crying shame, cause it is very impressive. More for "classic" type of productivity apps though. I thought the cost we per developer and pretty reasonable? for commercial licencing?
    - stcredzero 18y ago
      High cost per developer? That was the mistake many of the Smalltalk companies made. Mindshare and volume will always win in the end.
- jksmith 18y ago
  Damn straight. Supporting OSX look or iPhone look only helps Apple sell more stuff; it doesn't directly help the internet fully realize itself, and a fully realized internet must be the future of computing.
  - whalesalad 18y ago
    ^^ I don't understand why people say things like this. Clearly the interfaces that Apple has chosen for its products are succeeding. Succeeding in that they help Apple sell more things, and consequently succeeding because they are usable and people enjoy using them. Eventually these interfaces will become standard. I also dislike it when people whine about Vista looking like OS X, and all the mac people complain about XYZ looking like OS X. I can tell when someone is an Apple fanboy, and I can also tell (you sir) when someone doesn't like Apple at all and probably develops .NET apps in Visual Studio. Such radical users! Why can't we come together for the common good. If you don't like the interface, what might you recommend as an alternative? People are dumping Vista left and right for either XP or moving to OS X (as their reports will show, Apple is growing momentum! we all know it!) If you have an alternative then let's hear it but if all you are going to do is whine about it then it's not helping! Also, as a final note, Sproutcore isn't about the interface elements. You can change those with the swap of a PNG and a few lines of CSS. It's about the evolution of user interaction on the internet. Bringing the desktop-web void closer together.
    - dcurtis 18y ago
      A lot of the evolution of user interaction on the internet is directly related to the interface elements that drive those interactions. The current web UI toolkit consisting of, for example, submit buttons, links with underlines, and navigation designed for page reloads, doesn't exactly complement the new designed-for-instant-interactivity backend in things like SproutCore.
- dcurtis 18y ago
  Interesting point, although I don't think following Apple's interface design paradigm is a bad thing. They know how to create beautiful and easy interfaces, and that is part of the reason The iPod and iPhone are so wildly popular. Obviously, copying the Mac OS X design style might not be the best solution in the far future, but for now, as we evolve a new interface lnguage for web apps, it works well enough. Also, I agree that SproutCore may not be the best solution for creating these apps. Cappuccino, by the 280 north guys looks really promising (although I haven't seen much of it).

by dcurtis 18y ago

dualogy 18y ago

Agree, though I also think: - SproutCore may not be the best, most persuasive or most powerful example of / driving force behind this - this evolution will see less apps mimicking native desktop-OS-imposed widgetry (like 280slides trying to look like MacOS), resulting in a soup of shades-of-gray --- and more like the many usability-centred, colourful web apps out there. Desktop apps will rather tend to mimick that than the other way around. - There is no good reason for 280Slides and other Office-on-the-Web solutions to so closely resemble the desktop experience of 90s-style applications (other than, perhaps, customer expectations and user acceptance). GUI is something that can, and should be radically rethought and evolved, all-the-time.

pxlpshr 18y ago
I agree... a friend turned me onto EXT, and it's quite impressive but hardly gets the same attention and coverage as some of the other frameworks simply due to its cost (which is extremely high! tears). http://extjs.com/products/extjs/ http://extjs.com/products/extjs/ http://extjs.com/deploy/dev/examples/desktop/desktop.html http://extjs.com/deploy/dev/examples/desktop/desktop.html
- nickb 18y ago
  You might wanna read this: http://pablotron.org/?cid=1556 http://pablotron.org/?cid=1556 and this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9878693-16.html http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9878693-16.html
  - andreyf 18y ago
    No, it's not completely Open Source, but it is if you pay up, or if you're not making money off it. What's all the confusion? I think it's a clever move ... the result is more economically feasible than "real" open source, and a lot more libre than secret source.
- michaelneale 18y ago
  yeah its a crying shame, cause it is very impressive. More for "classic" type of productivity apps though. I thought the cost we per developer and pretty reasonable? for commercial licencing?
  - stcredzero 18y ago
    High cost per developer? That was the mistake many of the Smalltalk companies made. Mindshare and volume will always win in the end.
jksmith 18y ago
Damn straight. Supporting OSX look or iPhone look only helps Apple sell more stuff; it doesn't directly help the internet fully realize itself, and a fully realized internet must be the future of computing.
- whalesalad 18y ago
  ^^ I don't understand why people say things like this. Clearly the interfaces that Apple has chosen for its products are succeeding. Succeeding in that they help Apple sell more things, and consequently succeeding because they are usable and people enjoy using them. Eventually these interfaces will become standard. I also dislike it when people whine about Vista looking like OS X, and all the mac people complain about XYZ looking like OS X. I can tell when someone is an Apple fanboy, and I can also tell (you sir) when someone doesn't like Apple at all and probably develops .NET apps in Visual Studio. Such radical users! Why can't we come together for the common good. If you don't like the interface, what might you recommend as an alternative? People are dumping Vista left and right for either XP or moving to OS X (as their reports will show, Apple is growing momentum! we all know it!) If you have an alternative then let's hear it but if all you are going to do is whine about it then it's not helping! Also, as a final note, Sproutcore isn't about the interface elements. You can change those with the swap of a PNG and a few lines of CSS. It's about the evolution of user interaction on the internet. Bringing the desktop-web void closer together.
  - dcurtis 18y ago
    A lot of the evolution of user interaction on the internet is directly related to the interface elements that drive those interactions. The current web UI toolkit consisting of, for example, submit buttons, links with underlines, and navigation designed for page reloads, doesn't exactly complement the new designed-for-instant-interactivity backend in things like SproutCore.
dcurtis 18y ago
Interesting point, although I don't think following Apple's interface design paradigm is a bad thing. They know how to create beautiful and easy interfaces, and that is part of the reason The iPod and iPhone are so wildly popular. Obviously, copying the Mac OS X design style might not be the best solution in the far future, but for now, as we evolve a new interface lnguage for web apps, it works well enough. Also, I agree that SproutCore may not be the best solution for creating these apps. Cappuccino, by the 280 north guys looks really promising (although I haven't seen much of it).