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> The entire point is to make it impossible to block ads at the network level. The entire point is to make DNS secure. For every 1 person who uses DNS to block

> The entire point is to make it impossible to block ads at the network level. The entire point is to make DNS secure. For every 1 person who uses DNS to block ads, there are many thousands who just use their ISP's DNS servers, and thus remain subject to surveillance, ads, redirects, and other malice. You can't possibly believe in good faith that the entire point or even the primary point of DoH is to hurt the small fraction of people who use DNS to block ads, rather than to protect the much larger set of people who are subject to the whims and financial interests of their ISP.

ocdtrekkie 5y ago
ISPs do not inject malware and phishing scams, Google Ads does. The benefit of blocking ISP tampering is vastly outweighed by protecting the bad behavior of a far more malevolent party.
- JoshTriplett 5y ago
  Google ads (like most ads) are hosted by websites that intentionally put them there; install an adblocker. Google doesn't MITM sites; ISPs and malicious networks do. ISPs are also known to surveil traffic on their networks. I'm not disputing that Google ads and tracking, like all other ads and tracking, should be blocked. Run a browser you trust, and run an adblocker. But the widespread use of unencrypted DNS is a problem that needs fixing. And DoH provides the most viable solution for that problem, by running DNS over an ordinary HTTPS connection.
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    > Google doesn't MITM sites AMP.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      There's legitimate complaints about AMP, but it's not a MITM.
      - rightbyte 5y ago
        Ye I know. I was half sincere, half joking.
- akersten 5y ago
  > ISPs do not inject malware Not taking a side on this thread, but just want to point out that Comcast literally has a patent describing just such a mechanism. [0] [0]: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120224572 https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120224572
  - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
    From said patent: > including weather, emergency broadcast, and police stations These seem like reasonable uses of this technology. My ISP has tried to inject a copyright violation notice before. (This was hilarious, actually, because it went to a guest in my house's browser, not one of mine, and I almost didn't hear about it at all, because they only sent it that way once... and I had to ask them to send me an actual letter about it with the details, which would've been the straightforward way to tell me in the first place...) Irritations with copyright holders aside, that was a notification of a mark against my account, which is arguably information that needed to be delivered to me. Meanwhile, Google is preserving their ability to send phishing sites unimpeded.
- wbl 5y ago
  Not a Verizon customer I take it?

ocdtrekkie 5y ago

ISPs do not inject malware and phishing scams, Google Ads does. The benefit of blocking ISP tampering is vastly outweighed by protecting the bad behavior of a far more malevolent party.

JoshTriplett 5y ago
Google ads (like most ads) are hosted by websites that intentionally put them there; install an adblocker. Google doesn't MITM sites; ISPs and malicious networks do. ISPs are also known to surveil traffic on their networks. I'm not disputing that Google ads and tracking, like all other ads and tracking, should be blocked. Run a browser you trust, and run an adblocker. But the widespread use of unencrypted DNS is a problem that needs fixing. And DoH provides the most viable solution for that problem, by running DNS over an ordinary HTTPS connection.
- rightbyte 5y ago
  > Google doesn't MITM sites AMP.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    There's legitimate complaints about AMP, but it's not a MITM.
    - rightbyte 5y ago
      Ye I know. I was half sincere, half joking.
akersten 5y ago
> ISPs do not inject malware Not taking a side on this thread, but just want to point out that Comcast literally has a patent describing just such a mechanism. [0] [0]: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120224572 https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120224572
- ocdtrekkie 5y ago
  From said patent: > including weather, emergency broadcast, and police stations These seem like reasonable uses of this technology. My ISP has tried to inject a copyright violation notice before. (This was hilarious, actually, because it went to a guest in my house's browser, not one of mine, and I almost didn't hear about it at all, because they only sent it that way once... and I had to ask them to send me an actual letter about it with the details, which would've been the straightforward way to tell me in the first place...) Irritations with copyright holders aside, that was a notification of a mark against my account, which is arguably information that needed to be delivered to me. Meanwhile, Google is preserving their ability to send phishing sites unimpeded.
wbl 5y ago
Not a Verizon customer I take it?