5 ms·

The problem is, the sun is more powerful, but the wavelength of the visible/UV light means it can't get past our skin. Radio waves obviously can penetrate much

The problem is, the sun is more powerful, but the wavelength of the visible/UV light means it can't get past our skin. Radio waves obviously can penetrate much farther and get to the areas that you would want to be concerned about.

aeternum 5y ago
The sun also produces radio-waves, it generates very broad spectrum radiation, as do other natural celestial events.
- netr0ute 5y ago
  I'm not sure about the specifics, but the sun is a blackbody radiator. As visible light is orders of magnitude higher frequency than regular radio waves (say, AWS which uses 1.9/2GHz), the amount of radio-level RF emitted by the sun isn't as high as you'd think. Also, if it did emit high enough levels of RF, we wouldn't be able to use any radios here in earth because the SNR could never be high enough.
  - sidewndr46 5y ago
    The sun is a blackbody radiator and does exactly what you think. However, RF from the sun basically only arrives at exactly one angle from the sky (or not at all, if it is night time). It does exactly what you describe, degrading SNR from signals in the same direction to the point of uselessness. If you've ever used satellite based services like television then you've probably experienced it. There is a long explanation here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-03-20/how-can-the-sun-mess-with-your-tv-and-radio/8363976 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-03-20/how-can-the-s... > The period in which the Sun passes behind a geostationary satellite is brief — about 10 minutes at most according to Dr Carter — but the noise is enough to degrade or completely disrupt radio and television broadcasts, as well as satellite internet.
    - netr0ute 5y ago
      I would have thought the signals from the sun would bounce around on ground terrain, making things like WiFi useless. Does this also mean I should try to shield my outdoor wireless devices from sunlight?
      - sidewndr46 5y ago
        No, it shouldn't be an issue. Visible and RF don't reflect identically off all materials.
- rocqua 5y ago
  Sure, but these radio waves don't get very far in atmosphere. So the sun's radio waves barely reach us.
Nicksil 5y ago
>Radio waves obviously can penetrate much farther and get to the areas that you would want to be concerned about. Is this correct? I'm not much more than a layman in physics, but I thought RF, being below the visible spectrum, is non-ionizing thus unable to cause any cell damage. Edit: Besides from microwaves or similar oscillating fields.
- ampdepolymerase 5y ago
  Anything can cause damage if it is intense enough (intensity is a separate quantity from photon energy). You do not want to put your hand into a microwave oven. But a cellphone's level of radiant intensity is absolutely harmless.
- netr0ute 5y ago
  Being non-ionizing is definitely a perk of regular radio, but it doesn't necessarily mean it can't create cell damage.
  - philipswood 5y ago
    I find it hard to imagine a realistic mechanism for HOW non-ionizing radiation at low energies would be causing cellular damage.
    - netr0ute 5y ago
      There could be a case if the magnetic fields created interfered with some molecular function, but I'm not up to date on that.
    - saltcured 5y ago
      I am no expert here, but there seem to be many pathways for damage other than ionization. The mention of calcium channels etc. shows a concern for unexpected triggering of normal cellular functions rather than direct molecular damage. Remember that cells are stateful biochemical machines, so it's not just instantaneous damage from radiation as the only possible pathway. If the authors are right and the cells are in some way receptive to the modulated emissions, some bio-structures might be like antenna and demodulators, stimulating the cells at many lower frequency scales. An analogy here could be a crystal radio which demodulates AM broadcasts into an audible frequency, or the way old GSM call negotiation patterns would induce an audible pattern in computer speakers. This summary of occupational safety concerns for mechanical vibration covers a topic I found interesting when it first appeared as a news item years ago: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415671/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415671/ I know you might say this is vastly different scales of energy between whole body vibration from an industrial job and emissions from a battery-powered cell phone. My observation is merely that there are many ways that we might naively think that our bodies are robust, while with repeated exposure to seemingly harmless conditions, subtle damage accumulates.

aeternum 5y ago

The sun also produces radio-waves, it generates very broad spectrum radiation, as do other natural celestial events.

netr0ute 5y ago
I'm not sure about the specifics, but the sun is a blackbody radiator. As visible light is orders of magnitude higher frequency than regular radio waves (say, AWS which uses 1.9/2GHz), the amount of radio-level RF emitted by the sun isn't as high as you'd think. Also, if it did emit high enough levels of RF, we wouldn't be able to use any radios here in earth because the SNR could never be high enough.
- sidewndr46 5y ago
  The sun is a blackbody radiator and does exactly what you think. However, RF from the sun basically only arrives at exactly one angle from the sky (or not at all, if it is night time). It does exactly what you describe, degrading SNR from signals in the same direction to the point of uselessness. If you've ever used satellite based services like television then you've probably experienced it. There is a long explanation here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-03-20/how-can-the-sun-mess-with-your-tv-and-radio/8363976 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-03-20/how-can-the-s... > The period in which the Sun passes behind a geostationary satellite is brief — about 10 minutes at most according to Dr Carter — but the noise is enough to degrade or completely disrupt radio and television broadcasts, as well as satellite internet.
  - netr0ute 5y ago
    I would have thought the signals from the sun would bounce around on ground terrain, making things like WiFi useless. Does this also mean I should try to shield my outdoor wireless devices from sunlight?
    - sidewndr46 5y ago
      No, it shouldn't be an issue. Visible and RF don't reflect identically off all materials.
rocqua 5y ago
Sure, but these radio waves don't get very far in atmosphere. So the sun's radio waves barely reach us.

Nicksil 5y ago

>Radio waves obviously can penetrate much farther and get to the areas that you would want to be concerned about. Is this correct? I'm not much more than a layman in physics, but I thought RF, being below the visible spectrum, is non-ionizing thus unable to cause any cell damage. Edit: Besides from microwaves or similar oscillating fields.

ampdepolymerase 5y ago
Anything can cause damage if it is intense enough (intensity is a separate quantity from photon energy). You do not want to put your hand into a microwave oven. But a cellphone's level of radiant intensity is absolutely harmless.
netr0ute 5y ago
Being non-ionizing is definitely a perk of regular radio, but it doesn't necessarily mean it can't create cell damage.
- philipswood 5y ago
  I find it hard to imagine a realistic mechanism for HOW non-ionizing radiation at low energies would be causing cellular damage.
  - netr0ute 5y ago
    There could be a case if the magnetic fields created interfered with some molecular function, but I'm not up to date on that.
  - saltcured 5y ago
    I am no expert here, but there seem to be many pathways for damage other than ionization. The mention of calcium channels etc. shows a concern for unexpected triggering of normal cellular functions rather than direct molecular damage. Remember that cells are stateful biochemical machines, so it's not just instantaneous damage from radiation as the only possible pathway. If the authors are right and the cells are in some way receptive to the modulated emissions, some bio-structures might be like antenna and demodulators, stimulating the cells at many lower frequency scales. An analogy here could be a crystal radio which demodulates AM broadcasts into an audible frequency, or the way old GSM call negotiation patterns would induce an audible pattern in computer speakers. This summary of occupational safety concerns for mechanical vibration covers a topic I found interesting when it first appeared as a news item years ago: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415671/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6415671/ I know you might say this is vastly different scales of energy between whole body vibration from an industrial job and emissions from a battery-powered cell phone. My observation is merely that there are many ways that we might naively think that our bodies are robust, while with repeated exposure to seemingly harmless conditions, subtle damage accumulates.