4 ms·

Juul is the largest player in the game and were the first ones to use nicotine salts. There are many other companies ready to take their place (and they already

by dntrkv 5y ago

Juul is the largest player in the game and were the first ones to use nicotine salts. There are many other companies ready to take their place (and they already are). The only "option" is to ban vaping outright. But then you're also banning the best smoking substitute.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
> The only "option" is to ban vaping outright. But then you're also banning the best smoking substitute. That's not the only option. So much of the deserved vitriol against Juul is because their marketing and everything else about their product (e.g. fruit flavors) were specifically designed to get kids hooked. Juul's marketing should be the poster child for the banality of evil.
- dntrkv 5y ago
  Fruit flavors do not exist because of the need to market to kids. Go into any vape shop and watch as grown-ass men, one after another, buy vape cartridges with names like Unicorn Blueberry Smoothie. Children aren't the only ones that like tasty flavors. As far as their marketing targeting children, I haven't seen any examples of that. Using millennials in your adverts does not equate to targeting children.
  - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
    I'm not denying that adult smokers can enjoy fruit flavors, but at this point not even Juul is trying to deny their early marketing was targeted to youths. https://www.vox.com/2019/1/25/18194953/vape-juul-e-cigarette-marketing https://www.vox.com/2019/1/25/18194953/vape-juul-e-cigarette...
    - dntrkv 5y ago
      None of the evidence in that whitepaper shows that they were targeting kids. They were targeting millennials (ages 24-40 now), like most other products out there today. Once they caught the attention of the media and anti-smoking groups, they made changes to lay low and actively avoid many of the usual advertising channels and approaches. Minimalist design, tasty flavors, colorful ads, and using social media does not equate to targeting kids. The kids aren't getting hooked on Juuls because of advertising. They're getting hooked on them because they give you a buzz and are convenient.
      - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
        > Minimalist design, tasty flavors, colorful ads, and using social media does not equate to targeting kids. Well, we clearly just agree to disagree. That article I think shows well how the early Juul marketing followed the cigarette marketing so closely, and there is voluminous evidence that cigarette marketers know you need to target young people because hardly anyone starts smoking after their early twenties.

by dntrkv 5y ago

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

> The only "option" is to ban vaping outright. But then you're also banning the best smoking substitute. That's not the only option. So much of the deserved vitriol against Juul is because their marketing and everything else about their product (e.g. fruit flavors) were specifically designed to get kids hooked. Juul's marketing should be the poster child for the banality of evil.

dntrkv 5y ago
Fruit flavors do not exist because of the need to market to kids. Go into any vape shop and watch as grown-ass men, one after another, buy vape cartridges with names like Unicorn Blueberry Smoothie. Children aren't the only ones that like tasty flavors. As far as their marketing targeting children, I haven't seen any examples of that. Using millennials in your adverts does not equate to targeting children.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  I'm not denying that adult smokers can enjoy fruit flavors, but at this point not even Juul is trying to deny their early marketing was targeted to youths. https://www.vox.com/2019/1/25/18194953/vape-juul-e-cigarette-marketing https://www.vox.com/2019/1/25/18194953/vape-juul-e-cigarette...
  - dntrkv 5y ago
    None of the evidence in that whitepaper shows that they were targeting kids. They were targeting millennials (ages 24-40 now), like most other products out there today. Once they caught the attention of the media and anti-smoking groups, they made changes to lay low and actively avoid many of the usual advertising channels and approaches. Minimalist design, tasty flavors, colorful ads, and using social media does not equate to targeting kids. The kids aren't getting hooked on Juuls because of advertising. They're getting hooked on them because they give you a buzz and are convenient.
    - hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
      > Minimalist design, tasty flavors, colorful ads, and using social media does not equate to targeting kids. Well, we clearly just agree to disagree. That article I think shows well how the early Juul marketing followed the cigarette marketing so closely, and there is voluminous evidence that cigarette marketers know you need to target young people because hardly anyone starts smoking after their early twenties.