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All I know is that we need GOOGLE to open up about this issue. What is the future of Android? Should I keep developing apps for Android? Should I be telling

by dpcan 15y ago

All I know is that we need GOOGLE to open up about this issue. What is the future of Android? Should I keep developing apps for Android? Should I be telling my family to buy Android phones? I know that the summary of these patents is one thing, but the guts are in the claims of the patents. To what degree is something actually "infringing" on a patent? Does it have to meet EVERY claim? Does it have to just come close? What REALLY constitutes infringement of a software patent like this? EDIT: 1 more question if anyone has a deeper understanding of this. Why is HTC being sued for something the Android OS is doing? Is HTC infringing, or is Android?

blinkingled 15y ago
I personally don't think anyone should be worried. HTC/Samsung et.al are big companies with their own patent portfolios and deep pockets. At the worst they will pay the cartels and move along - business as usual. If you were to apply the "oh $CORP got sued and lost a patent lawsuit - I might want to dump $CORP product" uniformly - you will be left with no products to buy in the mobile space at least! Why is HTC being sued and not Android - Because HTC is an corporate entity that makes money off Android - Android isn't a corporate entity on its own - who would they sue if they wanted to sue Android?
- ben1040 15y ago
  Why is HTC being sued and not Android - Because HTC is an corporate entity that makes money off Android - Android isn't a corporate entity on its own - who would they sue if they wanted to sue Android? Google develops Android and markets it, and I would assume that they could be sued for developing an infringing product. Google most certainly makes money, and a lot of it, from Android. But Google makes no phones on its own, unlike HTC and Samsung, so Apple goes after those companies to keep the devices from being imported into the US. And Apple can fight Android in a legal proxy war rather than directly suing Google.
  - rryan 15y ago
    > Google most certainly makes money, and a lot of it, from Android. Could you explain how you are most certain of this? I don't believe they make any money from Android. If you mean they make a lot of money on ads from customers accessing their services via a mobile device -- then fair enough but that's not "from Android" any more than they make tons of money "from the iPhone".
    - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
      They've released figures in the past that Android is profitable on its own; meaning irregardless to the effect on search profits. They make money on selling Google Apps, Maps service, etc to manufacturers and carriers.
      - shagrath 15y ago
        "They make money on selling Google Apps, Maps service, etc to manufacturers and carriers." Would love a source on this... AFAIK Google never publicly said Android Trademark and Google Apps were not free (apart from the obligation to pass the CTS test suite)
  - nissimk 15y ago
    Apple is actually taking this up with HTC and Motorola. They're not suing Samsung, possibly because they do a lot of business with them, and possibly because Samsung has a much larger patent portfolio with which they can defend themselves. Initiating patent infringement is not without risks when you go up against someone with a large arsenal that they can fight back with.
    - fpgeek 15y ago
      Uh, Apple is suing Samsung: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2383820,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2383820,00.asp They may not be suing Samsung over this particular patent, but that could easily change.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  > At the worst they will pay the cartels and move along - business as usual. No, worst case is that Apple doesn't see a reason to grant a license and effectively blocks the sale of HTC Android devices until they remove whatever it is that they're "violating" here (and what that is I have no idea).
  - blinkingled 15y ago
    That's technically possible but unlikely in this case. Apple violates S3 patents for example - HTC own S3 and if they refuse to license those then they could stop Apple from selling iPhones too - which is good ground for both to consider cross licensing in this case.
    - dpcan 15y ago
      Are they already licensing S3 patents though? If so, would there not be a contract of some kind in place to stop HTC from just pulling the plug?
      - blinkingled 15y ago
        If they were licensing why would they be in court with S3 and why would the judge rule infringement - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-01/apple-gets-mixed-ruling-in-s3-patent-claims-before-u-s-itc.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-01/apple-gets-mixed-ru...
        7rurl 15y ago
        Is it possible that Apple's patent suit against HTC is a retaliation against S3's patent suit agents Apple? And if so, would it make it pretty silly to be freaking out about Apple trying to patent Android out of existence?
        blinkingled 15y ago
        You will have to look at the dates - specifically date on which Apple filed lawsuit against HTC and also when S3 filed one against Apple - before or after they were bought by HTC.
bad_user 15y ago
Why is HTC being sued for something the Android OS is doing? Is HTC infringing, or is Android? Because you can sue anybody that distributes an implementation of said patents. Heck, you can even sue users that bought Android phones. Yes, patents are fucked-up like that.
pvarangot 15y ago
> 1 more question if anyone has a deeper understanding of > this. Why is HTC being sued for something the Android OS > is doing? Is HTC infringing, or is Android? I'm not an expert in "patentish" language, but it is of my understanding that the patents as they are redacted apply to a complete working cellphone and not only to it's OS or software.

by dpcan 15y ago

blinkingled 15y ago

I personally don't think anyone should be worried. HTC/Samsung et.al are big companies with their own patent portfolios and deep pockets. At the worst they will pay the cartels and move along - business as usual. If you were to apply the "oh $CORP got sued and lost a patent lawsuit - I might want to dump $CORP product" uniformly - you will be left with no products to buy in the mobile space at least! Why is HTC being sued and not Android - Because HTC is an corporate entity that makes money off Android - Android isn't a corporate entity on its own - who would they sue if they wanted to sue Android?

ben1040 15y ago
Why is HTC being sued and not Android - Because HTC is an corporate entity that makes money off Android - Android isn't a corporate entity on its own - who would they sue if they wanted to sue Android? Google develops Android and markets it, and I would assume that they could be sued for developing an infringing product. Google most certainly makes money, and a lot of it, from Android. But Google makes no phones on its own, unlike HTC and Samsung, so Apple goes after those companies to keep the devices from being imported into the US. And Apple can fight Android in a legal proxy war rather than directly suing Google.
- rryan 15y ago
  > Google most certainly makes money, and a lot of it, from Android. Could you explain how you are most certain of this? I don't believe they make any money from Android. If you mean they make a lot of money on ads from customers accessing their services via a mobile device -- then fair enough but that's not "from Android" any more than they make tons of money "from the iPhone".
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    They've released figures in the past that Android is profitable on its own; meaning irregardless to the effect on search profits. They make money on selling Google Apps, Maps service, etc to manufacturers and carriers.
    - shagrath 15y ago
      "They make money on selling Google Apps, Maps service, etc to manufacturers and carriers." Would love a source on this... AFAIK Google never publicly said Android Trademark and Google Apps were not free (apart from the obligation to pass the CTS test suite)
- nissimk 15y ago
  Apple is actually taking this up with HTC and Motorola. They're not suing Samsung, possibly because they do a lot of business with them, and possibly because Samsung has a much larger patent portfolio with which they can defend themselves. Initiating patent infringement is not without risks when you go up against someone with a large arsenal that they can fight back with.
  - fpgeek 15y ago
    Uh, Apple is suing Samsung: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2383820,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2383820,00.asp They may not be suing Samsung over this particular patent, but that could easily change.
MatthewPhillips 15y ago
> At the worst they will pay the cartels and move along - business as usual. No, worst case is that Apple doesn't see a reason to grant a license and effectively blocks the sale of HTC Android devices until they remove whatever it is that they're "violating" here (and what that is I have no idea).
- blinkingled 15y ago
  That's technically possible but unlikely in this case. Apple violates S3 patents for example - HTC own S3 and if they refuse to license those then they could stop Apple from selling iPhones too - which is good ground for both to consider cross licensing in this case.
  - dpcan 15y ago
    Are they already licensing S3 patents though? If so, would there not be a contract of some kind in place to stop HTC from just pulling the plug?
    - blinkingled 15y ago
      If they were licensing why would they be in court with S3 and why would the judge rule infringement - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-01/apple-gets-mixed-ruling-in-s3-patent-claims-before-u-s-itc.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-01/apple-gets-mixed-ru...
      - 7rurl 15y ago
        Is it possible that Apple's patent suit against HTC is a retaliation against S3's patent suit agents Apple? And if so, would it make it pretty silly to be freaking out about Apple trying to patent Android out of existence?
        blinkingled 15y ago
        You will have to look at the dates - specifically date on which Apple filed lawsuit against HTC and also when S3 filed one against Apple - before or after they were bought by HTC.

bad_user 15y ago

Why is HTC being sued for something the Android OS is doing? Is HTC infringing, or is Android? Because you can sue anybody that distributes an implementation of said patents. Heck, you can even sue users that bought Android phones. Yes, patents are fucked-up like that.

pvarangot 15y ago

> 1 more question if anyone has a deeper understanding of > this. Why is HTC being sued for something the Android OS > is doing? Is HTC infringing, or is Android? I'm not an expert in "patentish" language, but it is of my understanding that the patents as they are redacted apply to a complete working cellphone and not only to it's OS or software.