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Neither are perfect, so both are the same? Sorry, but that's just not the reality. For starters, one can say "F Trump" or "F Biden" without getting disappeared.

Neither are perfect, so both are the same? Sorry, but that's just not the reality. For starters, one can say "F Trump" or "F Biden" without getting disappeared. There -are- systems to hold the powers-at-be accountable. The way issues are handled in these countries are completely different. I'm tired of this whatboutism used to excuse completely appalling behavior with -zero- checks and balances at all. Country A doing bad thing doesn't excuse Country B from doing a much worse thing.

Sr_developer 5y ago
The big majority of the chinese prefer to live under their current system. The fact you are a white, american male in tech does not make your opinion worthier, more intelligent or the moral compass. For many people the US is a barbaric state who humiliates and kill their non-white population and it is a imperialistic juggernaut who stops at nothing (they can kill hundreds of thousand of children with no remose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8YQ8gKIV8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8YQ8gKIV8U ) to get what they want. So I would stop with the moralizing, nobody with 2 cells will buy it.
- andrewzah 5y ago
  This is not only whataboutism but also an ad hominem attack. I don't know why you think I would excuse the USA's actions, both now and in the past. "Many people want to live in X" is not a strong argument- many people want to live in the US as well... now we've gotten nowhere. My point above is not that the US is above reproach, but that it isn't disapppearing its citizens for criticizing the government or practicing different religions or being of a specific ethnicity. Etc. To say the two countries are "equally bad" is a pro-ccp propaganda point.
  - Sr_developer 5y ago
    > My point above is not that the US is above reproach, but that it isn't disapppearing its citizens for criticizing the government or practicing different religions or being of a specific ethnicity. Etc. To say the two countries are "equally bad" is a pro-ccp propaganda point. The US has killed their own citizen with drones, has imprisoned people who revealed government abuse and just last year arrested more than 100 journalists. https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-jailed-imprisoned/ https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-ja... So I could easily same the same about you, you are repeating a pro-CIA propaganda point. I would suggest to ask around in Latin-America, in Africa in China and even in Europe and ask people who they consider more a threat to world peace and which behaves in an arrogant, "my way or the highway", imperialistic manner. You will be very surprised and the whole worldview you were taught in your perfectly designed educational system will come crash down. Less swearing allegiance to the flag and more travelling. I hope that is not ad-hominem enough to try to ban me.
    - i_haz_rabies 5y ago
      I think the most objective criteria to evaluate this is how many people would want to immigrate to the US and how many would want to immigrate to China.
      - Sr_developer 5y ago
        The answer is MONEY, not "Freedom" or any other pablum you were taught. As economic conditions improve in China,India,even Mexico many educated people are returning. No one wants to live in a racist country when they will be treated as second-class citizens at best.
        andrewzah 5y ago
        > or any other pablum you were taught If you want to have a civilized conversation, the first thing is to stop assuming everyone only consumes propagandistic drivel if you disagree with them. Many people, like myself, have traveled and lived in various other countries. Nowhere in my comments have I ever said the US doesn't have issues; in fact I quite frequently discuss the enormous issues the US has and so do most of the people that I know... This is a freedom that I, and the media, do have and can exercise without getting imprisoned. The reporter issue -is- quite serious and needs addressing, but is related to police abusing their power during the riots last year, not the federal or state government going to people's homes and arresting them for posting online criticism of the government or ruling party. We're free to message each other and post online about every single atrocity the US government has committed without repercussion. How can a bad situation be improved if criticizing the government is impossible? > No one wants to live in a racist country when they will be treated as second-class citizens at best. You mean like living in any homogeneous Asian country as any ethnicity except the primary one? You accuse me of not traveling, but my experience from living in S. Korea and Japan showed me that highly homogeneous countries can be wildly racist about everyone. The US is not the only country has serious racism issues, and it's a shame that I need to state that. It seems like you think the US is one entity, but depending on the city and state it can be extremely multicultural and diverse (like Chicago, my home town). Plenty of people are moving to the US still; I don't really find it a useful metric for an argument either way because it doesn't consider the origin country or the immigrant's prior situation.

Sr_developer 5y ago

The big majority of the chinese prefer to live under their current system. The fact you are a white, american male in tech does not make your opinion worthier, more intelligent or the moral compass. For many people the US is a barbaric state who humiliates and kill their non-white population and it is a imperialistic juggernaut who stops at nothing (they can kill hundreds of thousand of children with no remose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8YQ8gKIV8U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8YQ8gKIV8U ) to get what they want. So I would stop with the moralizing, nobody with 2 cells will buy it.

andrewzah 5y ago
This is not only whataboutism but also an ad hominem attack. I don't know why you think I would excuse the USA's actions, both now and in the past. "Many people want to live in X" is not a strong argument- many people want to live in the US as well... now we've gotten nowhere. My point above is not that the US is above reproach, but that it isn't disapppearing its citizens for criticizing the government or practicing different religions or being of a specific ethnicity. Etc. To say the two countries are "equally bad" is a pro-ccp propaganda point.
- Sr_developer 5y ago
  > My point above is not that the US is above reproach, but that it isn't disapppearing its citizens for criticizing the government or practicing different religions or being of a specific ethnicity. Etc. To say the two countries are "equally bad" is a pro-ccp propaganda point. The US has killed their own citizen with drones, has imprisoned people who revealed government abuse and just last year arrested more than 100 journalists. https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-jailed-imprisoned/ https://cpj.org/reports/2020/12/record-number-journalists-ja... So I could easily same the same about you, you are repeating a pro-CIA propaganda point. I would suggest to ask around in Latin-America, in Africa in China and even in Europe and ask people who they consider more a threat to world peace and which behaves in an arrogant, "my way or the highway", imperialistic manner. You will be very surprised and the whole worldview you were taught in your perfectly designed educational system will come crash down. Less swearing allegiance to the flag and more travelling. I hope that is not ad-hominem enough to try to ban me.
  - i_haz_rabies 5y ago
    I think the most objective criteria to evaluate this is how many people would want to immigrate to the US and how many would want to immigrate to China.
    - Sr_developer 5y ago
      The answer is MONEY, not "Freedom" or any other pablum you were taught. As economic conditions improve in China,India,even Mexico many educated people are returning. No one wants to live in a racist country when they will be treated as second-class citizens at best.
      - andrewzah 5y ago
        > or any other pablum you were taught If you want to have a civilized conversation, the first thing is to stop assuming everyone only consumes propagandistic drivel if you disagree with them. Many people, like myself, have traveled and lived in various other countries. Nowhere in my comments have I ever said the US doesn't have issues; in fact I quite frequently discuss the enormous issues the US has and so do most of the people that I know... This is a freedom that I, and the media, do have and can exercise without getting imprisoned. The reporter issue -is- quite serious and needs addressing, but is related to police abusing their power during the riots last year, not the federal or state government going to people's homes and arresting them for posting online criticism of the government or ruling party. We're free to message each other and post online about every single atrocity the US government has committed without repercussion. How can a bad situation be improved if criticizing the government is impossible? > No one wants to live in a racist country when they will be treated as second-class citizens at best. You mean like living in any homogeneous Asian country as any ethnicity except the primary one? You accuse me of not traveling, but my experience from living in S. Korea and Japan showed me that highly homogeneous countries can be wildly racist about everyone. The US is not the only country has serious racism issues, and it's a shame that I need to state that. It seems like you think the US is one entity, but depending on the city and state it can be extremely multicultural and diverse (like Chicago, my home town). Plenty of people are moving to the US still; I don't really find it a useful metric for an argument either way because it doesn't consider the origin country or the immigrant's prior situation.