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I find it somewhat funny that Propublica articles keep on making the front page, even though they have a clear very left leaning bias. Just look at the last hit

I find it somewhat funny that Propublica articles keep on making the front page, even though they have a clear very left leaning bias. Just look at the last hit piece on Peter Theil[1] and his use of a roth IRA (which is completely legal and just savvy finance). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27743427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27743427

jhloa2 5y ago
Just because it's legal doesn't make it ethical
- voisin 5y ago
  I concur with this. The point of the article isn’t to say he doing anything illegal. It is to show the rest of the population how screwed up the tax code is to allow such things to occur. It would be trivial to fix. Put an upper limit on what can be held in a tax advantaged account. $5 million. $10 million. Whatever. Not $5 billion. That wasn’t the original intent of the program.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  Right, and often it takes journalists describing the legal, unethical, behavior before we decide to make it illegal. If we aren't supposed to write negatively about anything someone does as long as it is legal, how would we ever come around to deciding to making something illegal?
frankbreetz 5y ago
They are not arguing that he did something illegal. They are arguing that the system is biased toward billionaires. "Savvy finance" is only available to those that can afford savvy accountants and tax people.
- AmericanChopper 5y ago
  “Savvy finance” would be something like using standby letters of credit to perform off the books international asset transfers. Claiming depreciation on your tax return is something I do with all my home office equipment every year.
colinmhayes 5y ago
Selling yourself undervalued assets into your IRA is not legal. Thiel sold his roth IRA paypal stock for much less than it was valued by his funders.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  At the time that Thiel purchased the shares, PayPal hadn't been funded. The company was worth $0 on paper.
  - acdha 5y ago
    > The company was worth $0 on paper. This is only true if you assume that everything involved (his time, knowledge, planning, etc.) had no value. Even if it would be unreasonable to predict how valuable it’d become, $0 is hard to defend.
    - xyzzyz 5y ago
      Ok, I have put a lot of my knowledge and planning into my LLC. Wanna buy it for a bargain price of $1000? Sure, it has no assets, but think of all the knowledge and planning I put into it.
      - acdha 5y ago
        Have you already raised funds, as he had? Are you aware of major additional investments pending, as he was? Do you have business deals in progress, as they did? There’s a reason why their own SEC filings described those shares as being issued below fair value. A simple fix for this would be to prevent private holdings from being placed into a Roth since independent valuations are hard to establish without market data but it’d be even better to simply cap the tax-free gains as suggested - if you accumulate millions in returns, paying taxes on the portion over n million is fine because you’ve still been phenomenally lucky and will retire wealthy.
        xyzzyz 5y ago
avs733 5y ago
can you further explain why you find left leaning bias and HN front page connection funny? Thats the part of your comment I am confused by...
- kolbe 5y ago
  People sometimes use that phrase to mean “suspicious,” (e.g. “I have a funny feeling”) or to imply black humor.
- nodesocket 5y ago
  Because, it is hypocritical. Has a right leaning article ever made the front page of HN? This false narrative of freedom of thought and diversity of ideas on HN is just patently false. A few people with agendas flag and downvote stories they don’t like or align with and oppress valid thoughts.
  - avs733 5y ago
    to contextualize your response, I think two links might help: 1) the discussion of political detox week from 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404 2) The 2019 new yorker profile on HN/dang/mod team https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/the-lonely-work-of-moderating-hacker-news https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/th... Key quote: In an Emacs file, Gackle collects a list of contradictory statements that people have used to describe Hacker News. (“SJW cesspool”; “a haven for alt-right and libertarian people”; “If you don’t support neoliberal fantasies, your comments probably aren’t welcome here”; “The only thing is left is to change Hacker News icon to Che Guevara emblem.”)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
bla3 5y ago
You can read them as hit pieces, or as investing advice :)

jhloa2 5y ago

Just because it's legal doesn't make it ethical

voisin 5y ago
I concur with this. The point of the article isn’t to say he doing anything illegal. It is to show the rest of the population how screwed up the tax code is to allow such things to occur. It would be trivial to fix. Put an upper limit on what can be held in a tax advantaged account. $5 million. $10 million. Whatever. Not $5 billion. That wasn’t the original intent of the program.
cortesoft 5y ago
Right, and often it takes journalists describing the legal, unethical, behavior before we decide to make it illegal. If we aren't supposed to write negatively about anything someone does as long as it is legal, how would we ever come around to deciding to making something illegal?

frankbreetz 5y ago

They are not arguing that he did something illegal. They are arguing that the system is biased toward billionaires. "Savvy finance" is only available to those that can afford savvy accountants and tax people.

AmericanChopper 5y ago
“Savvy finance” would be something like using standby letters of credit to perform off the books international asset transfers. Claiming depreciation on your tax return is something I do with all my home office equipment every year.

colinmhayes 5y ago

Selling yourself undervalued assets into your IRA is not legal. Thiel sold his roth IRA paypal stock for much less than it was valued by his funders.

missedthecue 5y ago
At the time that Thiel purchased the shares, PayPal hadn't been funded. The company was worth $0 on paper.
- acdha 5y ago
  > The company was worth $0 on paper. This is only true if you assume that everything involved (his time, knowledge, planning, etc.) had no value. Even if it would be unreasonable to predict how valuable it’d become, $0 is hard to defend.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    Ok, I have put a lot of my knowledge and planning into my LLC. Wanna buy it for a bargain price of $1000? Sure, it has no assets, but think of all the knowledge and planning I put into it.
    - acdha 5y ago
      Have you already raised funds, as he had? Are you aware of major additional investments pending, as he was? Do you have business deals in progress, as they did? There’s a reason why their own SEC filings described those shares as being issued below fair value. A simple fix for this would be to prevent private holdings from being placed into a Roth since independent valuations are hard to establish without market data but it’d be even better to simply cap the tax-free gains as suggested - if you accumulate millions in returns, paying taxes on the portion over n million is fine because you’ve still been phenomenally lucky and will retire wealthy.
      - xyzzyz 5y ago

avs733 5y ago

can you further explain why you find left leaning bias and HN front page connection funny? Thats the part of your comment I am confused by...

kolbe 5y ago
People sometimes use that phrase to mean “suspicious,” (e.g. “I have a funny feeling”) or to imply black humor.
nodesocket 5y ago
Because, it is hypocritical. Has a right leaning article ever made the front page of HN? This false narrative of freedom of thought and diversity of ideas on HN is just patently false. A few people with agendas flag and downvote stories they don’t like or align with and oppress valid thoughts.
- avs733 5y ago
  to contextualize your response, I think two links might help: 1) the discussion of political detox week from 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404 2) The 2019 new yorker profile on HN/dang/mod team https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/the-lonely-work-of-moderating-hacker-news https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/th... Key quote: In an Emacs file, Gackle collects a list of contradictory statements that people have used to describe Hacker News. (“SJW cesspool”; “a haven for alt-right and libertarian people”; “If you don’t support neoliberal fantasies, your comments probably aren’t welcome here”; “The only thing is left is to change Hacker News icon to Che Guevara emblem.”)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

bla3 5y ago

You can read them as hit pieces, or as investing advice :)