4 ms·

Several "Citation needed" in that comment.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
Here’s a good primer. I was a bit off, it’s not millions per sku, more like hundreds of thousands, but all the combinations of products also need to be accounted for and approved at great cost. https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-deadline-affect-vapers-and-the-industry/ https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-dea... If that’s not enough detail let me know, I’m happy to dig up other old articles for you. This small business destroying charade by the fda has been well documented and publicized. Though not as well as the fear mongering about children juuling.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  > fear mongering about children juuling. Why is that fear-mongering? My anecdotal evidence is that it's rampant with teens. Do you have any stats that are not anecdotal so I can educate myself?
  - markzzerella 5y ago
    When I was growing up all the teens were smoking and drinking. Considering how bad we know alcohol and cigarettes are for a developing brain, I'm inclined to not panic over the newest trend.
    - tekknik 5y ago
      Don’t forget marijuana, it reduces blood flow to the brain. Absolutely horrible for a developing brain.
      - markzzerella 5y ago
        I don't know how I forgot that. It was more popular than alcohol and cigarettes at my school.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    Because the stories are pushing an agenda and ignoring the broader scope of the issue that is children using addictive substances. Conversations about children vaping should be had, but in comparison to the rate of other tobacco and nicotine use. If it’s really about the kids shouldn’t we also be looking at alcohol and other drugs like marijuana too as reference? I don’t see articles about the high school kids that start drinking, taking opiates, or smoking cigarettes and marijuana every year. These are expected behaviors, vaping is new, and the preponderance of evidence says is far less dangerous than smoking, so a lot of ignorant and easily frightened people got caught up in the rhetoric and forgot how to rationalize about new risks. The fear mongering about juul was little more than a perfect excuse to quash outcry over the ridiculous legislation against vaping products on the state and National level.
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    It was rampant with teens, but then we "fixed" things. They went back to cigarettes. Mission accomplished I guess.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      Cigarettes are hard to covertly hit at school/home. They leave the person with a very distinctive stink. They are hard to buy online and damn near impossible for a minor to buy in person. With only 13% of adults smoking they aren't available to be swiped in most households and taxes in many places make those who do smoke liable to notice them walking out the door. Many places its about $10 a pack. Furthermore it is much more socially unacceptable and awareness of the harms of cigarettes has never been higher. Insofar as teens if eciggs were to become as hard to get as heroin tomorrow nicotine addition of teens all cause would be liable to decrease because your mom is absolutely going to know your smoking actual ciggs and have something to say in the matter.
      - tekknik 5y ago
        > Cigarettes are hard to covertly hit at school/home. I once knew an adult smoker who smoked about 1/2 a pack a day. She also didn’t want to smell like it, he had methods she employed that would leave absolutely no smell on her. If your kid wants to hide smoking analogs then they can easily, just stand in front of a fan and wash your hands and face after.
        michaelmrose 5y ago
        The overwhelming majority of parents are now non smokers and no schools are accepting of smoking. Smokers on average are addicted and would need to smoke some time during the school day and during their time at home. What you say is correct you could certainly decrease the chances of being caught but on net out of 100 smoking teens 90 will end up getting caught trying to smoke real ciggs whereas hiding a non scented vape is so extremely trivial that the situation is reversed. 90 will escape detection. There is a distinct difference between those two circumstances.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    Do you have any (non-anecotal, ideally) evidence that it's dangerous?
- wolverine876 5y ago
  I don't know that I buy Vaping 360, which has a banner saying "57 MILLION smokers and vaping enthusiasts reached since 2015!", as a credible source. Below you accuse stories about harm to children of "pushing an agenda"; might this be pushing one?
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    Everyone’s pushing an agenda these days. I didn’t post that as an unbiased source, but as a counter argument to the unified front against vaping amongst the mainstream teleprompt readers. If you want an unbiased source for this discussion you’re going to have to have a bad time.
pope_meat 5y ago
I'm a living citation. Was a small business owner, retail vape shop. Did fine for 5 years. Then the regulations to save the children and hit pieces in the news. All the small independent shops went under and now you can only buy the vuse, and juul, both owned by...you guessed it, the same folks who sold cigarettes. Basically, the wrong people were making money, and the regulators fixed that. Now the money is flowing to the right people and no one gives a shit that teen smoking rates went back to higher than they were before vaping. Harm reduced, a slow clap to our regulators.

Here’s a good primer. I was a bit off, it’s not millions per sku, more like hundreds of thousands, but all the combinations of products also need to be accounted for and approved at great cost. https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-deadline-affect-vapers-and-the-industry/ https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-dea... If that’s not enough detail let me know, I’m happy to dig up other old articles for you. This small business destroying charade by the fda has been well documented and publicized. Though not as well as the fear mongering about children juuling.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
> fear mongering about children juuling. Why is that fear-mongering? My anecdotal evidence is that it's rampant with teens. Do you have any stats that are not anecdotal so I can educate myself?
- markzzerella 5y ago
  When I was growing up all the teens were smoking and drinking. Considering how bad we know alcohol and cigarettes are for a developing brain, I'm inclined to not panic over the newest trend.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    Don’t forget marijuana, it reduces blood flow to the brain. Absolutely horrible for a developing brain.
    - markzzerella 5y ago
      I don't know how I forgot that. It was more popular than alcohol and cigarettes at my school.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  Because the stories are pushing an agenda and ignoring the broader scope of the issue that is children using addictive substances. Conversations about children vaping should be had, but in comparison to the rate of other tobacco and nicotine use. If it’s really about the kids shouldn’t we also be looking at alcohol and other drugs like marijuana too as reference? I don’t see articles about the high school kids that start drinking, taking opiates, or smoking cigarettes and marijuana every year. These are expected behaviors, vaping is new, and the preponderance of evidence says is far less dangerous than smoking, so a lot of ignorant and easily frightened people got caught up in the rhetoric and forgot how to rationalize about new risks. The fear mongering about juul was little more than a perfect excuse to quash outcry over the ridiculous legislation against vaping products on the state and National level.
- pope_meat 5y ago
  It was rampant with teens, but then we "fixed" things. They went back to cigarettes. Mission accomplished I guess.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    Cigarettes are hard to covertly hit at school/home. They leave the person with a very distinctive stink. They are hard to buy online and damn near impossible for a minor to buy in person. With only 13% of adults smoking they aren't available to be swiped in most households and taxes in many places make those who do smoke liable to notice them walking out the door. Many places its about $10 a pack. Furthermore it is much more socially unacceptable and awareness of the harms of cigarettes has never been higher. Insofar as teens if eciggs were to become as hard to get as heroin tomorrow nicotine addition of teens all cause would be liable to decrease because your mom is absolutely going to know your smoking actual ciggs and have something to say in the matter.
    - tekknik 5y ago
      > Cigarettes are hard to covertly hit at school/home. I once knew an adult smoker who smoked about 1/2 a pack a day. She also didn’t want to smell like it, he had methods she employed that would leave absolutely no smell on her. If your kid wants to hide smoking analogs then they can easily, just stand in front of a fan and wash your hands and face after.
      - michaelmrose 5y ago
        The overwhelming majority of parents are now non smokers and no schools are accepting of smoking. Smokers on average are addicted and would need to smoke some time during the school day and during their time at home. What you say is correct you could certainly decrease the chances of being caught but on net out of 100 smoking teens 90 will end up getting caught trying to smoke real ciggs whereas hiding a non scented vape is so extremely trivial that the situation is reversed. 90 will escape detection. There is a distinct difference between those two circumstances.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Do you have any (non-anecotal, ideally) evidence that it's dangerous?
wolverine876 5y ago
I don't know that I buy Vaping 360, which has a banner saying "57 MILLION smokers and vaping enthusiasts reached since 2015!", as a credible source. Below you accuse stories about harm to children of "pushing an agenda"; might this be pushing one?
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  Everyone’s pushing an agenda these days. I didn’t post that as an unbiased source, but as a counter argument to the unified front against vaping amongst the mainstream teleprompt readers. If you want an unbiased source for this discussion you’re going to have to have a bad time.

pope_meat 5y ago

I'm a living citation. Was a small business owner, retail vape shop. Did fine for 5 years. Then the regulations to save the children and hit pieces in the news. All the small independent shops went under and now you can only buy the vuse, and juul, both owned by...you guessed it, the same folks who sold cigarettes. Basically, the wrong people were making money, and the regulators fixed that. Now the money is flowing to the right people and no one gives a shit that teen smoking rates went back to higher than they were before vaping. Harm reduced, a slow clap to our regulators.