6 ms·

A website to spend Elon Musk's fortune

24 points by tlochhead 5y ago

thebean11 5y ago
Clicking "Buy" on the private island as fast as I can and not moving the needle really illustrates how big that number is..
zepto 5y ago
This kind of stuff is silly and damaging propaganda. It distracts people from what being a billionaire means. If Elon cashed out his stock he would no longer have control of SpaceX and Tesla. Those are literally what he is doing with his money.
- schmudde 5y ago
  Agreed. It doesn't mean buying things, it means exercising disproportionate influence and solidifying a dangerous concentration of power. But the ability to secure countless of dollars in government subsidies - over and over again at every level of government - is pretty hard to illustrate. Let's hope this person's next project does a better job at capturing what being a billionaire means.
  - zepto 5y ago
    What disproportionate influence or dangerous concentration of power does Elon represent other than the power he has to motivate his employees to build rockets and cars?
    - schmudde 5y ago
      I guess all I can do is grant you the fact that political science has had a difficult time proving the impact of money on policy in representative democracies. But I also know it is not an accident that someone as wealthy as Elon Musk paid no federal income taxes in 2018 and pays very little in many years. As wealthy people concentrate more power, they bend the system to their favor - distorting both social systems and the markets.
      - zepto 5y ago
        > wealthy as Elon Musk paid no federal income taxes in 2018 and pays very little in many years. What has this to do with anything? He doesn’t live off a salary, so of course he doesn’t pay income tax.
        schmudde 5y ago
        Exactly. This is how the system works. It is not an accident that someone can accumulate wealth and find ways not evade taxation through measures not available to other people in society. Even if you consider Musk's "effective tax rate," it's a pittance. Every single metric shows that the wealthy are increasingly effective at concentrating their wealth. This has been the trend in the United States since the mid-20th century. It's undeniable that they are deliberately and effectively doing this. The only question is whether or not this concentration of wealth is good for society or bad for society. Due to the complexity of societies, this is difficult to demonstrate empirically. I grant you this. If you think that these conditions haven't generally lead to the formation of strong kleptocracies throughout history... well I guess we'll simply disagree.
        zepto 5y ago
        > Exactly. This is how the system works Ok but now you’re agreeing with me. This has nothing to do with Elon musk exerting undue influence or doing anything nefarious with his power. The system has worked effectively to enable someone who is capable of it to organize people to build spacecraft and electric cars. > If you think that these conditions haven't generally lead to the formation of strong kleptocracies throughout history... You keep ‘granting me’ that there is no evidence that there is anything bad about what he is doing, but then introducing new innuendo to that effect.
        schmudde 5y ago
        There is no innuendo. I explicitly stated the lowest hanging fruit - he barely pays taxes - as a simple example of how wealthy people use their influence to distort social systems. If you don't think that his effective tax rate hovers around 5% is a problem - well that's fine. I don't really want to debate the qualitative impact of vast concentrations of wealth on social systems and markets. Quantitatively speaking, we can see that people in Musk's category of wealth have been increasingly effective at consolidating their wealth over the last 60 years. At least within North America and Western Europe. It looks like a deliberate effort to accumulate power - but it seems that you see this differently. This concentration of wealth is certainly not necessary to launch a car brand. It has happened too many times over the 20th century to be true.
- msftie 5y ago
  Agreed. We should all take being a billionaire more seriously.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  That's not true. He can sell at least half if not more while retaining voting control.
  - zepto 5y ago
    That’s not true - he has outside investors already.
PhrosTT 5y ago
He can't even afford to buy the NBA and NFL. What a loser.
fnfs2000 5y ago
Of course he couldn't dump all his stock at it's current share price, the sudden arrival of that many shares would drive the price down -- but these things aren't really about facts and more about driving an agenda
reco 5y ago
The comments here miss the point. Sure you can’t cash out all your stock at once without serious effects. There is no need to sell any stock though to access insane wealth. I racked up a bill on that site worth 5% of Elon’s value and went pretty wild. Elon could easily tap into that wealth tomorrow with a loan from a bank backed by collateral from his stock without selling a thing. So he maintains control of his companies, doesn’t pay taxes (as he sold nothing), and can literally buy anything he could ever imagine without having any serious effect on his net worth
- labcomputer 5y ago
  > I racked up a bill on that site worth 5% of Elon’s value and went pretty wild. Great! Now how do we pick which lucky 20 people get to spend the wealth?
- sparky_z 5y ago
  People always say this, and I always ask "but then doesn't he have to pay back the loan?" and I never get a good answer.
  - beisner 5y ago
    Presumably the loan period is quite long, and someone has some amount of income, so monthly payments are tiny. You can keep refinancing indefinitely until you die, after which your descendants can do a one-time liquidation (paying no cap gains tax) to pay off the balance. You never have to pay back the loan yourself. Just make small monthly payments and refinance until death. This is actually a pretty widely-exploited part of our tax system, for very high net worth people.
    - mlindner 5y ago
      What prevents you from taking a loan out on your shares, buying more shares, then taking a loan of the same amount out on the shares you just bought, and do it again, and repeat it forever?
Kim_Bruning 5y ago
If I were Elon Musk I'd spend all my money on setting up a Mars colony. Is it just me?
- mlindner 5y ago
  Well that's exactly why he's accumulating wealth. It'll all get dumped into that once Tesla is stable.
  - Kim_Bruning 5y ago
    O:-)
Zachsa999 5y ago
Chuckling with glee and buying all of NBA. Cries when remembers that it's not my money.

24 points by tlochhead 5y ago

Clicking "Buy" on the private island as fast as I can and not moving the needle really illustrates how big that number is..

zepto 5y ago

This kind of stuff is silly and damaging propaganda. It distracts people from what being a billionaire means. If Elon cashed out his stock he would no longer have control of SpaceX and Tesla. Those are literally what he is doing with his money.

schmudde 5y ago
Agreed. It doesn't mean buying things, it means exercising disproportionate influence and solidifying a dangerous concentration of power. But the ability to secure countless of dollars in government subsidies - over and over again at every level of government - is pretty hard to illustrate. Let's hope this person's next project does a better job at capturing what being a billionaire means.
- zepto 5y ago
  What disproportionate influence or dangerous concentration of power does Elon represent other than the power he has to motivate his employees to build rockets and cars?
  - schmudde 5y ago
    I guess all I can do is grant you the fact that political science has had a difficult time proving the impact of money on policy in representative democracies. But I also know it is not an accident that someone as wealthy as Elon Musk paid no federal income taxes in 2018 and pays very little in many years. As wealthy people concentrate more power, they bend the system to their favor - distorting both social systems and the markets.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > wealthy as Elon Musk paid no federal income taxes in 2018 and pays very little in many years. What has this to do with anything? He doesn’t live off a salary, so of course he doesn’t pay income tax.
      - schmudde 5y ago
        Exactly. This is how the system works. It is not an accident that someone can accumulate wealth and find ways not evade taxation through measures not available to other people in society. Even if you consider Musk's "effective tax rate," it's a pittance. Every single metric shows that the wealthy are increasingly effective at concentrating their wealth. This has been the trend in the United States since the mid-20th century. It's undeniable that they are deliberately and effectively doing this. The only question is whether or not this concentration of wealth is good for society or bad for society. Due to the complexity of societies, this is difficult to demonstrate empirically. I grant you this. If you think that these conditions haven't generally lead to the formation of strong kleptocracies throughout history... well I guess we'll simply disagree.
        zepto 5y ago
        > Exactly. This is how the system works Ok but now you’re agreeing with me. This has nothing to do with Elon musk exerting undue influence or doing anything nefarious with his power. The system has worked effectively to enable someone who is capable of it to organize people to build spacecraft and electric cars. > If you think that these conditions haven't generally lead to the formation of strong kleptocracies throughout history... You keep ‘granting me’ that there is no evidence that there is anything bad about what he is doing, but then introducing new innuendo to that effect.
        schmudde 5y ago
        There is no innuendo. I explicitly stated the lowest hanging fruit - he barely pays taxes - as a simple example of how wealthy people use their influence to distort social systems. If you don't think that his effective tax rate hovers around 5% is a problem - well that's fine. I don't really want to debate the qualitative impact of vast concentrations of wealth on social systems and markets. Quantitatively speaking, we can see that people in Musk's category of wealth have been increasingly effective at consolidating their wealth over the last 60 years. At least within North America and Western Europe. It looks like a deliberate effort to accumulate power - but it seems that you see this differently. This concentration of wealth is certainly not necessary to launch a car brand. It has happened too many times over the 20th century to be true.
msftie 5y ago
Agreed. We should all take being a billionaire more seriously.
alisonkisk 5y ago
That's not true. He can sell at least half if not more while retaining voting control.
- zepto 5y ago
  That’s not true - he has outside investors already.

PhrosTT 5y ago

He can't even afford to buy the NBA and NFL. What a loser.

fnfs2000 5y ago

Of course he couldn't dump all his stock at it's current share price, the sudden arrival of that many shares would drive the price down -- but these things aren't really about facts and more about driving an agenda

reco 5y ago

The comments here miss the point. Sure you can’t cash out all your stock at once without serious effects. There is no need to sell any stock though to access insane wealth. I racked up a bill on that site worth 5% of Elon’s value and went pretty wild. Elon could easily tap into that wealth tomorrow with a loan from a bank backed by collateral from his stock without selling a thing. So he maintains control of his companies, doesn’t pay taxes (as he sold nothing), and can literally buy anything he could ever imagine without having any serious effect on his net worth

labcomputer 5y ago
> I racked up a bill on that site worth 5% of Elon’s value and went pretty wild. Great! Now how do we pick which lucky 20 people get to spend the wealth?
sparky_z 5y ago
People always say this, and I always ask "but then doesn't he have to pay back the loan?" and I never get a good answer.
- beisner 5y ago
  Presumably the loan period is quite long, and someone has some amount of income, so monthly payments are tiny. You can keep refinancing indefinitely until you die, after which your descendants can do a one-time liquidation (paying no cap gains tax) to pay off the balance. You never have to pay back the loan yourself. Just make small monthly payments and refinance until death. This is actually a pretty widely-exploited part of our tax system, for very high net worth people.
  - mlindner 5y ago
    What prevents you from taking a loan out on your shares, buying more shares, then taking a loan of the same amount out on the shares you just bought, and do it again, and repeat it forever?

Kim_Bruning 5y ago

If I were Elon Musk I'd spend all my money on setting up a Mars colony. Is it just me?

mlindner 5y ago
Well that's exactly why he's accumulating wealth. It'll all get dumped into that once Tesla is stable.
- Kim_Bruning 5y ago
  O:-)

Zachsa999 5y ago

Chuckling with glee and buying all of NBA. Cries when remembers that it's not my money.