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Renewables are not more expensive. They are a lot cheaper if you account for the externalities. A carbon price, with border adjustments for im- and exports wou

• Unklejoe 5y ago
  > account for the externalities. I feel like that goes against human nature though. Instant gratification > all.
  • voakbasda 5y ago
    That will be one of the changes. Humans do not require instant gratification. It’s a luxury. We will be forced to give it up when it becomes unaffordable.
• jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  > They are a lot cheaper if you account for the externalities. You also need to account for grid scale energy storage to deploy renewables at any meaningful capacity. Unfortunately we still don’t have a cost-effective solution that works at grid scale. Batteries don’t last long enough.
  • adrianN 5y ago
    Power2Gas works at grid scale, but I agree that it's cost should come down a bit more. Right now it's cheaper to shape the demand side in most countries than to invest into storage. However, I am also taking into account about 200€/ton CO2.
    • jasonlaramburu 5y ago
      >Power2Gas works at grid scale You also have to consider round trip efficiency. Anything less than 75% is probably a non-starter. Lithium Ion approaches 93% but still has a very high cost of ownership.
      • adrianN 5y ago
        Well yeah, poor round trip efficiencies are an important part of what makes power2gas expensive. I find it unlikely that we'll have enough batteries to cover cold, dark winters, so I assume that we'll won't get around power2gas completely. The infrastructure to store large amounts of gas is already built, so that is nice.