5 ms·

Getting licensed for vaping is easier? (really asking)

CodeWriter23 5y ago
No. The only companies eligible in the PMTA License process for vape had to have been manufacturing in 2015 or 2016 when the FDA began its moratorium on new players entering the market.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
They’re both incredibly expensive and laborious. Like millions of dollars per sku expensive. The fda has put all the good vape shops out of business and extortionate taxes are killing the rest as people revert back to cigarettes. The fda is actively hurting Americans by shifting these costs onto retailers which was a Coup d'état for big tobacco who had been completely blindsided by the success of startup vape companies.
- OptionX 5y ago
  Several "Citation needed" in that comment.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    Here’s a good primer. I was a bit off, it’s not millions per sku, more like hundreds of thousands, but all the combinations of products also need to be accounted for and approved at great cost. https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-deadline-affect-vapers-and-the-industry/ https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-dea... If that’s not enough detail let me know, I’m happy to dig up other old articles for you. This small business destroying charade by the fda has been well documented and publicized. Though not as well as the fear mongering about children juuling.
    - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
      > fear mongering about children juuling. Why is that fear-mongering? My anecdotal evidence is that it's rampant with teens. Do you have any stats that are not anecdotal so I can educate myself?
      - markzzerella 5y ago
        When I was growing up all the teens were smoking and drinking. Considering how bad we know alcohol and cigarettes are for a developing brain, I'm inclined to not panic over the newest trend.
        tekknik 5y ago
        Don’t forget marijuana, it reduces blood flow to the brain. Absolutely horrible for a developing brain.
        markzzerella 5y ago
        I don't know how I forgot that. It was more popular than alcohol and cigarettes at my school.
      - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
        Because the stories are pushing an agenda and ignoring the broader scope of the issue that is children using addictive substances. Conversations about children vaping should be had, but in comparison to the rate of other tobacco and nicotine use. If it’s really about the kids shouldn’t we also be looking at alcohol and other drugs like marijuana too as reference? I don’t see articles about the high school kids that start drinking, taking opiates, or smoking cigarettes and marijuana every year. These are expected behaviors, vaping is new, and the preponderance of evidence says is far less dangerous than smoking, so a lot of ignorant and easily frightened people got caught up in the rhetoric and forgot how to rationalize about new risks. The fear mongering about juul was little more than a perfect excuse to quash outcry over the ridiculous legislation against vaping products on the state and National level.
      - pope_meat 5y ago
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      I don't know that I buy Vaping 360, which has a banner saying "57 MILLION smokers and vaping enthusiasts reached since 2015!", as a credible source. Below you accuse stories about harm to children of "pushing an agenda"; might this be pushing one?
      - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
        Everyone’s pushing an agenda these days. I didn’t post that as an unbiased source, but as a counter argument to the unified front against vaping amongst the mainstream teleprompt readers. If you want an unbiased source for this discussion you’re going to have to have a bad time.
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    I'm a living citation. Was a small business owner, retail vape shop. Did fine for 5 years. Then the regulations to save the children and hit pieces in the news. All the small independent shops went under and now you can only buy the vuse, and juul, both owned by...you guessed it, the same folks who sold cigarettes. Basically, the wrong people were making money, and the regulators fixed that. Now the money is flowing to the right people and no one gives a shit that teen smoking rates went back to higher than they were before vaping. Harm reduced, a slow clap to our regulators.
- mullingitover 5y ago
  > The fda has put all the good vape shops out of business and extortionate taxes are killing the rest as people revert back to cigarettes I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'll just point out the observation that there are a lot of perverse incentives to keep the tobacco money flowing, public health be damned. Hell, remember back 2019 public health officials were running made-up 'e-cigarettes are causing lung injury' scare which turned out to be entirely caused by contaminated black market THC cartriges? SF still hasn't walked back their e-cigarette ban that led to a doubling of tobacco use by high schoolers[1]. To give an idea of where priorities are, the state of California does 10x the number of checks to make sure stores are paying their cigarette taxes as they do to make sure stores aren't selling to minors. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2780248 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/...
- soperj 5y ago
  Philip Morris owns 35% of Juul.

No. The only companies eligible in the PMTA License process for vape had to have been manufacturing in 2015 or 2016 when the FDA began its moratorium on new players entering the market.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago

They’re both incredibly expensive and laborious. Like millions of dollars per sku expensive. The fda has put all the good vape shops out of business and extortionate taxes are killing the rest as people revert back to cigarettes. The fda is actively hurting Americans by shifting these costs onto retailers which was a Coup d'état for big tobacco who had been completely blindsided by the success of startup vape companies.

OptionX 5y ago
Several "Citation needed" in that comment.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  Here’s a good primer. I was a bit off, it’s not millions per sku, more like hundreds of thousands, but all the combinations of products also need to be accounted for and approved at great cost. https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-deadline-affect-vapers-and-the-industry/ https://vaping360.com/vape-news/105656/how-will-the-pmta-dea... If that’s not enough detail let me know, I’m happy to dig up other old articles for you. This small business destroying charade by the fda has been well documented and publicized. Though not as well as the fear mongering about children juuling.
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    > fear mongering about children juuling. Why is that fear-mongering? My anecdotal evidence is that it's rampant with teens. Do you have any stats that are not anecdotal so I can educate myself?
    - markzzerella 5y ago
      When I was growing up all the teens were smoking and drinking. Considering how bad we know alcohol and cigarettes are for a developing brain, I'm inclined to not panic over the newest trend.
      - tekknik 5y ago
        Don’t forget marijuana, it reduces blood flow to the brain. Absolutely horrible for a developing brain.
        markzzerella 5y ago
        I don't know how I forgot that. It was more popular than alcohol and cigarettes at my school.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
      Because the stories are pushing an agenda and ignoring the broader scope of the issue that is children using addictive substances. Conversations about children vaping should be had, but in comparison to the rate of other tobacco and nicotine use. If it’s really about the kids shouldn’t we also be looking at alcohol and other drugs like marijuana too as reference? I don’t see articles about the high school kids that start drinking, taking opiates, or smoking cigarettes and marijuana every year. These are expected behaviors, vaping is new, and the preponderance of evidence says is far less dangerous than smoking, so a lot of ignorant and easily frightened people got caught up in the rhetoric and forgot how to rationalize about new risks. The fear mongering about juul was little more than a perfect excuse to quash outcry over the ridiculous legislation against vaping products on the state and National level.
    - pope_meat 5y ago
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    I don't know that I buy Vaping 360, which has a banner saying "57 MILLION smokers and vaping enthusiasts reached since 2015!", as a credible source. Below you accuse stories about harm to children of "pushing an agenda"; might this be pushing one?
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
      Everyone’s pushing an agenda these days. I didn’t post that as an unbiased source, but as a counter argument to the unified front against vaping amongst the mainstream teleprompt readers. If you want an unbiased source for this discussion you’re going to have to have a bad time.
- pope_meat 5y ago
  I'm a living citation. Was a small business owner, retail vape shop. Did fine for 5 years. Then the regulations to save the children and hit pieces in the news. All the small independent shops went under and now you can only buy the vuse, and juul, both owned by...you guessed it, the same folks who sold cigarettes. Basically, the wrong people were making money, and the regulators fixed that. Now the money is flowing to the right people and no one gives a shit that teen smoking rates went back to higher than they were before vaping. Harm reduced, a slow clap to our regulators.
mullingitover 5y ago
> The fda has put all the good vape shops out of business and extortionate taxes are killing the rest as people revert back to cigarettes I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'll just point out the observation that there are a lot of perverse incentives to keep the tobacco money flowing, public health be damned. Hell, remember back 2019 public health officials were running made-up 'e-cigarettes are causing lung injury' scare which turned out to be entirely caused by contaminated black market THC cartriges? SF still hasn't walked back their e-cigarette ban that led to a doubling of tobacco use by high schoolers[1]. To give an idea of where priorities are, the state of California does 10x the number of checks to make sure stores are paying their cigarette taxes as they do to make sure stores aren't selling to minors. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2780248 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/...
soperj 5y ago
Philip Morris owns 35% of Juul.