4 ms·

> I'm definitely against marketing vaping to non-smokers. But I'm fine with converting existing smokers to vaping How can a society allow marketing vaping as a

> I'm definitely against marketing vaping to non-smokers. But I'm fine with converting existing smokers to vaping How can a society allow marketing vaping as a healthier way to smoke without allowing marketing that makes non-smokers think vaping is a healthy way to smoke? (Especially considering that the marketers are eager to market to non-smokers.)

Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
Hot take. Ban marketing/advertising? These are conversations that belong in a physicians office. Advertising is a scam on both sides and destroys instead of creates value for humanity. Historians will look back upon advertising the way many look back upon slavery.
- franga2000 5y ago
  Is it not already? Genuine question. In all of the coutries I'm familiar with, both smoking and vaping are illegal to advertise. Even alcohol in some cases, although more commonly it's allowed but strictly regulated (must be purely factual, no glorification, mandatory health disclaimer...)
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    Banned, in theory? Enforced? Nah. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/juul-vaping-lawsuit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/juul-vaping-lawsui...
smeej 5y ago
Related: Why is there talk about banning Juul from selling its products in the U.S. entirely, but no such conversation about banning any of the big tobacco companies from selling theirs? It's all about power. There are so many things it would be useful to quantify and compare: Does anybody know the difference between the percentage of non-nicotine users who begin smoking cigarettes and the percentage who begin vaping? It sounds like the percentage for vaping is higher, but how much higher? Is it as much higher as the risk of dangerous health complications smoking has over vaping? Never mind the question of why nicotine addiction is so dangerous it must be prevented on a federal level, but alcohol addictions aren't? How much more dangerous is nicotine than alcohol?
- leereeves 5y ago
  > Related: Why is there talk about banning Juul from selling its products in the U.S. entirely Important distinction: I didn't say anything about banning sales, just marketing, which we've already done for both smoking and alcohol. > How much more dangerous is nicotine than alcohol? According to the CDC, "cigarette smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States...causes more than 480,000 deaths each year in the United States" while "excessive alcohol use is responsible for more than 95,000 deaths in the United States each year, " https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal... https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/features/excessive-alcohol-deaths.html https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/features/excessive-alcohol-death... Edit: as for vaping specifically, the risks are not yet fully known, but some health authorities argue "a growing body of evidence shows that smoking e-cigarettes, or vaping, may be even more dangerous than smoking cigarettes". https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/healthy-tips/emotional-health/vaping-4-risks-for-kids https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/healthy-tips/emotional-health/...
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    However note that's comparing smoking not nicotine. Inhaling smoke is very bad for you. Lots of people die this way in fires. Like, you cut the victims open and there is soot in their lungs. So, no surprise smoking cigarettes is also a bad idea even if it's less bad than being in a literal burning building. Nicotine is poisonous, but so is booze. There may be other things about vaping which are bad for you, but it seems pretty clear that the main problem is the nicotine, which is why people are doing it anyway, so, fine. Booze has another important difference though: The ones drinking aren't always the ones dying. That can be because they're impaired while operating machinery (e.g. someone has "a few beers" then drives home, next morning they don't remember anything about how they got home, but there's a blood red stain on the bumper and someone else is found dead in a ditch) or they might just become violent and cause deliberate harm to others.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    > According to the CDC, "cigarette smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States...causes more than 480,000 deaths each year in the United States" while "excessive alcohol use is responsible for more than 95,000 deaths in the United States each year, The question was about nicotine; it is not generally the _nicotine_ in cigarettes that kills you. That's what keeps you smoking them (to a large extent) but it's not what kills you.
janeroe 5y ago
> How can a society allow What's the lastname of this Society guy? It's kind of hypocritical to wrap your personal wishes and desired in the veil of common good, care for others, etc.
- leereeves 5y ago
  > What's the lastname of this Society guy? Legislature would be its lastname, I suppose. As in [nation] legislature, [state] legislature, etc.
  - Nasrudith 5y ago
    Yeah but that kind of defeats the consent manufacturing illusion to say the actual entity instead of the vague "society" to brainjack people with presumed social pressures.
    - leereeves 5y ago
      Presumed social pressures? There's plenty of very real social pressure against marketing vaping to non-smokers. Alarmingly there are also many people, especially young people, who believe that vaping is safe, and if educating them is "consent manufacturing" then let's manufacture some consent on this issue.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago

Hot take. Ban marketing/advertising? These are conversations that belong in a physicians office. Advertising is a scam on both sides and destroys instead of creates value for humanity. Historians will look back upon advertising the way many look back upon slavery.

franga2000 5y ago
Is it not already? Genuine question. In all of the coutries I'm familiar with, both smoking and vaping are illegal to advertise. Even alcohol in some cases, although more commonly it's allowed but strictly regulated (must be purely factual, no glorification, mandatory health disclaimer...)
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
  Banned, in theory? Enforced? Nah. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/juul-vaping-lawsuit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/health/juul-vaping-lawsui...

smeej 5y ago

Related: Why is there talk about banning Juul from selling its products in the U.S. entirely, but no such conversation about banning any of the big tobacco companies from selling theirs? It's all about power. There are so many things it would be useful to quantify and compare: Does anybody know the difference between the percentage of non-nicotine users who begin smoking cigarettes and the percentage who begin vaping? It sounds like the percentage for vaping is higher, but how much higher? Is it as much higher as the risk of dangerous health complications smoking has over vaping? Never mind the question of why nicotine addiction is so dangerous it must be prevented on a federal level, but alcohol addictions aren't? How much more dangerous is nicotine than alcohol?

leereeves 5y ago
> Related: Why is there talk about banning Juul from selling its products in the U.S. entirely Important distinction: I didn't say anything about banning sales, just marketing, which we've already done for both smoking and alcohol. > How much more dangerous is nicotine than alcohol? According to the CDC, "cigarette smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States...causes more than 480,000 deaths each year in the United States" while "excessive alcohol use is responsible for more than 95,000 deaths in the United States each year, " https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal... https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/features/excessive-alcohol-deaths.html https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/features/excessive-alcohol-death... Edit: as for vaping specifically, the risks are not yet fully known, but some health authorities argue "a growing body of evidence shows that smoking e-cigarettes, or vaping, may be even more dangerous than smoking cigarettes". https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/healthy-tips/emotional-health/vaping-4-risks-for-kids https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/healthy-tips/emotional-health/...
- tialaramex 5y ago
  However note that's comparing smoking not nicotine. Inhaling smoke is very bad for you. Lots of people die this way in fires. Like, you cut the victims open and there is soot in their lungs. So, no surprise smoking cigarettes is also a bad idea even if it's less bad than being in a literal burning building. Nicotine is poisonous, but so is booze. There may be other things about vaping which are bad for you, but it seems pretty clear that the main problem is the nicotine, which is why people are doing it anyway, so, fine. Booze has another important difference though: The ones drinking aren't always the ones dying. That can be because they're impaired while operating machinery (e.g. someone has "a few beers" then drives home, next morning they don't remember anything about how they got home, but there's a blood red stain on the bumper and someone else is found dead in a ditch) or they might just become violent and cause deliberate harm to others.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  > According to the CDC, "cigarette smoking is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States...causes more than 480,000 deaths each year in the United States" while "excessive alcohol use is responsible for more than 95,000 deaths in the United States each year, The question was about nicotine; it is not generally the _nicotine_ in cigarettes that kills you. That's what keeps you smoking them (to a large extent) but it's not what kills you.

janeroe 5y ago

> How can a society allow What's the lastname of this Society guy? It's kind of hypocritical to wrap your personal wishes and desired in the veil of common good, care for others, etc.

leereeves 5y ago
> What's the lastname of this Society guy? Legislature would be its lastname, I suppose. As in [nation] legislature, [state] legislature, etc.
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  Yeah but that kind of defeats the consent manufacturing illusion to say the actual entity instead of the vague "society" to brainjack people with presumed social pressures.
  - leereeves 5y ago
    Presumed social pressures? There's plenty of very real social pressure against marketing vaping to non-smokers. Alarmingly there are also many people, especially young people, who believe that vaping is safe, and if educating them is "consent manufacturing" then let's manufacture some consent on this issue.