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> The notion that these technologies can transform financial services in any way is laughable, because there is no mechanism or specific problem they aim to add

> The notion that these technologies can transform financial services in any way is laughable, because there is no mechanism or specific problem they aim to address that is not currently better done with a simpler solution. Well, he hasn't obviously tried to send money from Europe to Latin America. On $2000 transaction. $25-40 bank transfer (takes up to 5 days). $80 Payoneer (can be fast, but can also take 2 days) $1 Bitcoin (4 hours)

weikju 5y ago
How much to get your $2000 in and out of a bitcoin wallet/exchange?
- jiriknesl 5y ago
  It depends on exchange. Each has different fees. Also, as Bitcoin is deflationary, in those 5 years, I usually got more than $2000. But this is I guess just temporary. And if Bitcoin will grow, it will stabilize (probably) and interfacing with the world will get cheaper (both exchange to fiat or buying directly for cryptocurrencies or cryptocurrency-backed payment card).
- mclightning 5y ago
  some exchanges offer credit cards which means you can use the amount directly.
rostigerpudel 5y ago
Just looked it up for Western Union: To transfer 2000€ from Germany to a Chilean bank account, you pay a fee of 0.90€. The currency exchange spread adds 13.32€ to the costs. Transfer time is between 0-4 work days. If you want to have cash in hand within minutes, they offer that too, albeit with a hefty surcharge. With Bitcoin, you have to pay an on-ramp and an off-ramp because EUR->Bitcoin->CLP, which will be hard to get done cheaper than the WU currency exchange spread (introductory offers don't count, so keep your anecdote). Given current Bitcoin volatility you need to do the currency exchange quickly or you may have a hodl moment and have to wait for Bitcoin to regain its value. I really fail to see where the great savings from carrying out such a transaction via Bitcoin are supposed to come from, in particular when take into account the number of intermediaries I have to interact with and trust and the technical complexity involved in handling Bitcoin. People are always willing to pay a small fee for comfort and security.
- jiriknesl 5y ago
  Western Union doesn't have business accounts in most of countries. Normal transaction doesn't allow Business -> Business payments. They cannot send money to Iran (where we also have partners). But you are right. Their fees are way cheaper than bank & Payoneer. Ad on-ramp&off-ramp - sure. This is a temporary situation in which it adds some expense. Hopefully, people will have a chance to have cards refilled directly with cryptocurrencies worldwide (they already exist for major countries).

weikju 5y ago

How much to get your $2000 in and out of a bitcoin wallet/exchange?

jiriknesl 5y ago
It depends on exchange. Each has different fees. Also, as Bitcoin is deflationary, in those 5 years, I usually got more than $2000. But this is I guess just temporary. And if Bitcoin will grow, it will stabilize (probably) and interfacing with the world will get cheaper (both exchange to fiat or buying directly for cryptocurrencies or cryptocurrency-backed payment card).
mclightning 5y ago
some exchanges offer credit cards which means you can use the amount directly.

rostigerpudel 5y ago

Just looked it up for Western Union: To transfer 2000€ from Germany to a Chilean bank account, you pay a fee of 0.90€. The currency exchange spread adds 13.32€ to the costs. Transfer time is between 0-4 work days. If you want to have cash in hand within minutes, they offer that too, albeit with a hefty surcharge. With Bitcoin, you have to pay an on-ramp and an off-ramp because EUR->Bitcoin->CLP, which will be hard to get done cheaper than the WU currency exchange spread (introductory offers don't count, so keep your anecdote). Given current Bitcoin volatility you need to do the currency exchange quickly or you may have a hodl moment and have to wait for Bitcoin to regain its value. I really fail to see where the great savings from carrying out such a transaction via Bitcoin are supposed to come from, in particular when take into account the number of intermediaries I have to interact with and trust and the technical complexity involved in handling Bitcoin. People are always willing to pay a small fee for comfort and security.

jiriknesl 5y ago
Western Union doesn't have business accounts in most of countries. Normal transaction doesn't allow Business -> Business payments. They cannot send money to Iran (where we also have partners). But you are right. Their fees are way cheaper than bank & Payoneer. Ad on-ramp&off-ramp - sure. This is a temporary situation in which it adds some expense. Hopefully, people will have a chance to have cards refilled directly with cryptocurrencies worldwide (they already exist for major countries).