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There is innovation in the crypto space but it's not being talked about or covered in mainstream media. Not yet at least. Just because the author has fallen vi

There is innovation in the crypto space but it's not being talked about or covered in mainstream media. Not yet at least. Just because the author has fallen victim to the media oligopoly and is thus unable to see any innovation past all the flashy CNN, Facebook and Cointelegraph interfaces, doesn't mean there is no innovation occuring. I'm involved in an innovative project right now which is creating real world economic value. It's small but we've already proved the concept and are profitable. The blockchain adds undeniable value to our use case. When people finally find out about all the innovation that has been going on outside of their awarenesses, it's going to be a shock and they will regret it.

faeyanpiraat 5y ago
Are you sure about that? How did you arrive at the conclusion that it is undeniably a value-add?
- redpiller 5y ago
  We came up with a way to allow investors to independently verify how much profit a business makes with certainty without having to trust company directors or accountants. Clearly this is a value-add for new/small companies which don't yet have a reputation as it reduces risk for the investor. It's also a value-add for investors of big companies as it prevents them from being mislead about quarterly profits. In our specific case, we applied it to a real estate rental business. We use the token as the primary store of value for the profits of the underlying economic activity. We have a holding company but the share was made worthless as part of the company's memorandum of incorporation. This can be achieved with a couple of simple clauses. The token is a much more transparent and more reliable financial instrument to represent ownership of some economic activity than the share. Being able to then trade it on decentralized exchanges is another advantage but more of a convenience at this stage. The next phase for the community will be to build search engines which can crawl blockchains and decentralized exchanges to find tokenized businesses.
  - timkam 5y ago
    Can you elaborate? I doubt your claim because "how much profit" a business makes is tied to the legal/financial system(s) the business operates in. To me it looks like we have the "object level vs. meta level" fallacy that is so typical for crypto enthusiasts: in the end, what governs our society is not crypto tech (object level), but meta level institutions. And even if these institutions were to agree that, for example, a smart contract is a legal contract, they could still reverse this decisions and hence move the agreement back to the meta level.
    - redpiller 5y ago
      Here is an article about our use case: https://jonathangrosdubois.medium.com/how-leasehold-achieves-decentralization-8e311c6e55f https://jonathangrosdubois.medium.com/how-leasehold-achieves...
      - RandomLensman 5y ago
        Maybe I get this wrong, but doesn't this rely very classically on aligned interests and various parts keeping the other parts in check? No blockchain or tokens required... I did not see anything how profit is verified. Could always use expenses to funnel money out, opex and capex are mixed creatively etc.
        redpiller 5y ago
        It costs real money to buy back tokens from the market and to burn them on the blockchain because they are provably scarce. Because new tokens cannot be created, burning them on the blockchain permanently reduces the remaining circulating supply of tokens so the value of remaining tokens goes up (supply versus demand). Someone could potentially funnel money out from the stream of profits but anyone could independently check expected earnings (looking at the assets in the portfolio) against the on-chain buyback amount. At least, it significantly limits how much money can be funnelled out. On the other hand, with a regular company, the directors can make up any numbers on the books and funnel out all of the profits and could keep this going for years undetected. That is far worse. Altogether, it's not 100% trustless but it's orders of magnitude more transparent than a share-based system. As a small business with directors located in different parts of the world (some of which only met over video chat), this model was essential for us to get over the trust hurdle. Now that we can see tokens being bought and burned, it is building trust within the community. Many community members have already sold some tokens back and seen them burned. Some small investors already made a profit over their initial investment and still have half of their tokens left. That said, it's not going to be ideal until we we multiple real estate companies (run by different people) hooked into the LSH blockchain. The more companies there are, the less trust there is.
yosamino 5y ago
> When people finally find out about all the innovation that has been going on outside of their awarenesses Do you have some examples of what you mean? Maybe it would be interesting to get into that
pjkundert 5y ago
I've been involved in "Crypto" since before Bitcoin (yup), and I never cease to be surprised at the innovation-blindness here on HN! Even clearly obvious disruptions that are already affecting the financial industry (such as DeFi exchanges, etc.), and which signal even greater disruptions to come, are blithely discarded as irrelevant. The abusive treatment of free citizens by the banking system is going to end. "The banks" haven't yet really declared war on Crypto, perhaps because they still feel unassailable in their super-national castles, well beyond the reach of any national law or moral principle. This naiveté will be their downfall, I hope.

faeyanpiraat 5y ago

Are you sure about that? How did you arrive at the conclusion that it is undeniably a value-add?

redpiller 5y ago
We came up with a way to allow investors to independently verify how much profit a business makes with certainty without having to trust company directors or accountants. Clearly this is a value-add for new/small companies which don't yet have a reputation as it reduces risk for the investor. It's also a value-add for investors of big companies as it prevents them from being mislead about quarterly profits. In our specific case, we applied it to a real estate rental business. We use the token as the primary store of value for the profits of the underlying economic activity. We have a holding company but the share was made worthless as part of the company's memorandum of incorporation. This can be achieved with a couple of simple clauses. The token is a much more transparent and more reliable financial instrument to represent ownership of some economic activity than the share. Being able to then trade it on decentralized exchanges is another advantage but more of a convenience at this stage. The next phase for the community will be to build search engines which can crawl blockchains and decentralized exchanges to find tokenized businesses.
- timkam 5y ago
  Can you elaborate? I doubt your claim because "how much profit" a business makes is tied to the legal/financial system(s) the business operates in. To me it looks like we have the "object level vs. meta level" fallacy that is so typical for crypto enthusiasts: in the end, what governs our society is not crypto tech (object level), but meta level institutions. And even if these institutions were to agree that, for example, a smart contract is a legal contract, they could still reverse this decisions and hence move the agreement back to the meta level.
  - redpiller 5y ago
    Here is an article about our use case: https://jonathangrosdubois.medium.com/how-leasehold-achieves-decentralization-8e311c6e55f https://jonathangrosdubois.medium.com/how-leasehold-achieves...
    - RandomLensman 5y ago
      Maybe I get this wrong, but doesn't this rely very classically on aligned interests and various parts keeping the other parts in check? No blockchain or tokens required... I did not see anything how profit is verified. Could always use expenses to funnel money out, opex and capex are mixed creatively etc.
      - redpiller 5y ago
        It costs real money to buy back tokens from the market and to burn them on the blockchain because they are provably scarce. Because new tokens cannot be created, burning them on the blockchain permanently reduces the remaining circulating supply of tokens so the value of remaining tokens goes up (supply versus demand). Someone could potentially funnel money out from the stream of profits but anyone could independently check expected earnings (looking at the assets in the portfolio) against the on-chain buyback amount. At least, it significantly limits how much money can be funnelled out. On the other hand, with a regular company, the directors can make up any numbers on the books and funnel out all of the profits and could keep this going for years undetected. That is far worse. Altogether, it's not 100% trustless but it's orders of magnitude more transparent than a share-based system. As a small business with directors located in different parts of the world (some of which only met over video chat), this model was essential for us to get over the trust hurdle. Now that we can see tokens being bought and burned, it is building trust within the community. Many community members have already sold some tokens back and seen them burned. Some small investors already made a profit over their initial investment and still have half of their tokens left. That said, it's not going to be ideal until we we multiple real estate companies (run by different people) hooked into the LSH blockchain. The more companies there are, the less trust there is.

yosamino 5y ago

> When people finally find out about all the innovation that has been going on outside of their awarenesses Do you have some examples of what you mean? Maybe it would be interesting to get into that

pjkundert 5y ago

I've been involved in "Crypto" since before Bitcoin (yup), and I never cease to be surprised at the innovation-blindness here on HN! Even clearly obvious disruptions that are already affecting the financial industry (such as DeFi exchanges, etc.), and which signal even greater disruptions to come, are blithely discarded as irrelevant. The abusive treatment of free citizens by the banking system is going to end. "The banks" haven't yet really declared war on Crypto, perhaps because they still feel unassailable in their super-national castles, well beyond the reach of any national law or moral principle. This naiveté will be their downfall, I hope.