4 ms·

This is the kind of thing that makes me confident CEOs, etc. are over paid by a ton. How good of a job are you doing if everyone hates your brand so much that

This is the kind of thing that makes me confident CEOs, etc. are over paid by a ton. How good of a job are you doing if everyone hates your brand so much that a ton of governments are suing you? How valuable was all that JiT manufacturing bullshit that’s going to cost the car companies $100 billion this year. How good is the leadership that’s taken the brand image of companies that used to be respected (ex: GE appliances) and flushed a (literal) century of good will down the toilet for a few years of huge profits due to cost cutting? The internet never forgets and people will always remember. We’re seeing a time in history where I think the leaders will be looked back on and viewed as absolute failures.

dontblink 5y ago
While the Internet never forgets, I find people's memory to be fairly fickle.
- donmcronald 5y ago
  I could be wrong, but it sure seems like there are a couple of upcoming generations that can’t afford houses that will “cancel” some of these companies at the drop of a hat. I think we’ll eventually hit a tipping point where the economic realities of what’s been going on for the last 3-4 decades will suddenly become the focus of the majority and big companies will have no good will to defend themselves.
  - ojbyrne 5y ago
    Your anger reminds me of how many people (including me) felt about m$ft in the nineties. I predict similar results.
    - cheschire 5y ago
      Or how AT&T was broken up and has successfully acquired most of that back and then some. People don’t remember, and let these things continue to happen.
    - donmcronald 5y ago
      In the 90s they price gouged us. This time they're price gouging us AND trying to eliminate our ability to own anything. 30 years ago you could keep your head down, go to work, and today you own a house. It's not the same this time. In 20 more years there'll be 2+ generations of people that have worked for over 20 years and don't own any assets.
- paulcole 5y ago
  The internet definitely forgets or HN wouldn’t have rehashed the same 11 discussions every day for the past decade.
  - skinkestek 5y ago
    I'd see that rather as evidence. We are having the same discussions because we are not forgetting. That said they also change over time. I used to be on one side of the discussion in two different discussions, now I am on the other side. Same goes for a number of others it seems.
shadilay 5y ago
Leadership works for their bonus, not for the company. Any alignment of incentives is purely coincidental.
SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
JIT is really complex. I work in automotive and it’s actually really impressive on a deployment level. However, yea, no one saw Covid coming. And, the whole 2008-Carpocalypse was extra bad because it wasn’t GM and Chrysler, it was literally everyone down the line. If GM went under, Johnson Controls goes under, and since they make every Toyota and Hyundai seat (IDK, figuratively, but probably) they struggle and go under too. It’s a fascinating deadlock / race condition of sales and profits and shipping. I think it’s cool to see seats made two hours ago show up on the line at the exact second this body is on the line, installed, than a chassis that was made one a different line happens to line up and everything came together in seconds… but yes, there are some downsides.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  > If GM went under, Johnson Controls goes under, and since they make every Toyota and Hyundai seat... Toyota et al. would bail out Johnson Controls. JC Penney was as good as dead. It got bought by two major mall operators because mall tenants have clauses in their leases that would lower their rent if an anchor tenant leaves. It was cheaper for Brookfield and Simon to pickup JCP for scrap and run a minimally viable department store just to keep up rents (and hopefully foot traffic) for smaller tenants.
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    Cool thought. Completely skips over the reality of 2008, and the auto industry though. Johnson was one example. I highly doubt Toyota or anyone could carry them at the time alone. What about ContinentalTevis? What about Bosch Automotive? Delphi? Packard? Amphenol? Yazaki? New Venture? Dana? Allison? Vector? ETAS? How about the literally thousands of suppliers that all make one or two things or exist only to certify this or that? This wasn’t just these companies but a large portion of Michigan, Ohio, Illinois. You missed the entire point of the interconnectedness of the automotive industry.
jeffbee 5y ago
Sorry, but this is totally counterfactual. Public opinion holds God, the Post Office, and Google in a three-way tie for first place in trustworthiness.
dehrmann 5y ago
> How good of a job are you doing if everyone hates your brand People love Google. It's only behind Apple as a brand people love. > How valuable was all that JiT manufacturing bullshit It's not BS. It's saying 99% uptime is good enough, and the cost of 99.8% isn't worth the added inventory. It may or may not be the right call, but for automakers who make a durable product that isn't as critical in an emergency as N95 respirators, it's a reasonable call. > GE appliances GE was definitely mismanaged. Management got distracted looking for growth and went into all sorts of side businesses. Appliances aren't exactly GE's core business, though. They became commoditized, and it's hard to justify premium prices or investment on a commodity. You're better off making jet engines and MRIs. GE actually sold off its appliance business because it's better at other things, and if people want to pay a premium for a microwave with a GE badge, go for it. GE isn't a consumer company anymore, so a bad experience with a microwave they didn't make isn't going to stop you from using their turbines.
- yladiz 5y ago
  > People love Google. It's only behind Apple as a brand people love. Stepping back: what is the definition of "love" here, and do you have some data to back this up? I think you might be conflating brand awareness with brand loyalty or "brand love", because while Google is basically in the English lexicon for searching on a search engine now an it has a really high brand awareness I don't think I've ever heard people say they "love" Google or anything along those lines, while I have heard sentiments like this for an Apple product.

dontblink 5y ago

While the Internet never forgets, I find people's memory to be fairly fickle.

donmcronald 5y ago
I could be wrong, but it sure seems like there are a couple of upcoming generations that can’t afford houses that will “cancel” some of these companies at the drop of a hat. I think we’ll eventually hit a tipping point where the economic realities of what’s been going on for the last 3-4 decades will suddenly become the focus of the majority and big companies will have no good will to defend themselves.
- ojbyrne 5y ago
  Your anger reminds me of how many people (including me) felt about m$ft in the nineties. I predict similar results.
  - cheschire 5y ago
    Or how AT&T was broken up and has successfully acquired most of that back and then some. People don’t remember, and let these things continue to happen.
  - donmcronald 5y ago
    In the 90s they price gouged us. This time they're price gouging us AND trying to eliminate our ability to own anything. 30 years ago you could keep your head down, go to work, and today you own a house. It's not the same this time. In 20 more years there'll be 2+ generations of people that have worked for over 20 years and don't own any assets.
paulcole 5y ago
The internet definitely forgets or HN wouldn’t have rehashed the same 11 discussions every day for the past decade.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  I'd see that rather as evidence. We are having the same discussions because we are not forgetting. That said they also change over time. I used to be on one side of the discussion in two different discussions, now I am on the other side. Same goes for a number of others it seems.

shadilay 5y ago

Leadership works for their bonus, not for the company. Any alignment of incentives is purely coincidental.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago

JIT is really complex. I work in automotive and it’s actually really impressive on a deployment level. However, yea, no one saw Covid coming. And, the whole 2008-Carpocalypse was extra bad because it wasn’t GM and Chrysler, it was literally everyone down the line. If GM went under, Johnson Controls goes under, and since they make every Toyota and Hyundai seat (IDK, figuratively, but probably) they struggle and go under too. It’s a fascinating deadlock / race condition of sales and profits and shipping. I think it’s cool to see seats made two hours ago show up on the line at the exact second this body is on the line, installed, than a chassis that was made one a different line happens to line up and everything came together in seconds… but yes, there are some downsides.

dehrmann 5y ago
> If GM went under, Johnson Controls goes under, and since they make every Toyota and Hyundai seat... Toyota et al. would bail out Johnson Controls. JC Penney was as good as dead. It got bought by two major mall operators because mall tenants have clauses in their leases that would lower their rent if an anchor tenant leaves. It was cheaper for Brookfield and Simon to pickup JCP for scrap and run a minimally viable department store just to keep up rents (and hopefully foot traffic) for smaller tenants.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  Cool thought. Completely skips over the reality of 2008, and the auto industry though. Johnson was one example. I highly doubt Toyota or anyone could carry them at the time alone. What about ContinentalTevis? What about Bosch Automotive? Delphi? Packard? Amphenol? Yazaki? New Venture? Dana? Allison? Vector? ETAS? How about the literally thousands of suppliers that all make one or two things or exist only to certify this or that? This wasn’t just these companies but a large portion of Michigan, Ohio, Illinois. You missed the entire point of the interconnectedness of the automotive industry.

jeffbee 5y ago

Sorry, but this is totally counterfactual. Public opinion holds God, the Post Office, and Google in a three-way tie for first place in trustworthiness.

dehrmann 5y ago

> How good of a job are you doing if everyone hates your brand People love Google. It's only behind Apple as a brand people love. > How valuable was all that JiT manufacturing bullshit It's not BS. It's saying 99% uptime is good enough, and the cost of 99.8% isn't worth the added inventory. It may or may not be the right call, but for automakers who make a durable product that isn't as critical in an emergency as N95 respirators, it's a reasonable call. > GE appliances GE was definitely mismanaged. Management got distracted looking for growth and went into all sorts of side businesses. Appliances aren't exactly GE's core business, though. They became commoditized, and it's hard to justify premium prices or investment on a commodity. You're better off making jet engines and MRIs. GE actually sold off its appliance business because it's better at other things, and if people want to pay a premium for a microwave with a GE badge, go for it. GE isn't a consumer company anymore, so a bad experience with a microwave they didn't make isn't going to stop you from using their turbines.

yladiz 5y ago
> People love Google. It's only behind Apple as a brand people love. Stepping back: what is the definition of "love" here, and do you have some data to back this up? I think you might be conflating brand awareness with brand loyalty or "brand love", because while Google is basically in the English lexicon for searching on a search engine now an it has a really high brand awareness I don't think I've ever heard people say they "love" Google or anything along those lines, while I have heard sentiments like this for an Apple product.