8 ms·

The article is of interest to me, although it is a bit light on details. I'm increasingly finding myself considering some form of alternate schooling for my ch

The article is of interest to me, although it is a bit light on details. I'm increasingly finding myself considering some form of alternate schooling for my children. The public schools in my area are sub-par. Quality public schools exist, but are zoned and therefore my children are not permitted unless we move (expensive and non-desirable). Private schools are absurdly expensive, we've decent public metrics in Australia and they're frequently no better than a decent public school. Worse, they're essentially universally dead set on trying to indoctrinate children into one cult or another. My wife is a primary school teacher. She's incredibly hands on and is renowned for her ability to form relationships, and take a special interest in her students' wellbeing. She's demonstrated her ability to function independently, by taking existing resources and expanding them; having recently launched a small well-being book + play subscription for young children (https://mybookbag.com.au/ https://mybookbag.com.au/). I'm quite interested in teaching, hands-on learning and mentoring myself. I've worked from home for the last 7 years and will continue to do so. I've a 3 year old daughter with Type 1 Diabetes, and I don't much trust her care to others, at least while she's too young to take a more active role in her own care. I'm aware my situation is perhaps uniquely ideal for some form of "home schooling", and yet I'm still extremely hesitant to take the idea seriously. Socialisation is of course a concern, but I think it's more the stigma and also lack of data/oversight. Is there anyone here with much experience in alternate education structures that has any insight to share?

actfrench 5y ago
Hi Benjamin, I'm the writer of the modular learning article and would be happy to speak to you (for free of course) and exchange ideas or answer questions as best I can. Please feel free to contact me at manisha[at]modulo.app I also tried to write a short piece about getting started with a modular learning approach based on how I've observed most parents do it successfully. My email is manisha[at]modulo.app if I can be of help. And this offer extends to any parent who is reading this and needs someone to talk to. modulo.app/all-resources/getting-started-with-modular-learning
actfrench 5y ago
Oh also, I'd love to hear what details would be most helpful to you. I'd really like to flesh this out more.
analog31 5y ago
I wonder the extent to which homeschool kids tend to develop the social and academic traits that resemble their parents. My kids were school-schooled, but the kids who were diligent, self disciplined, and academically inclined had parents who were professors and doctors -- fields that select for the same characteristics. My kids were involved in music, which is a popular activity among homeschool families, so we got to know quite a few people that way, and socially, the kids resembled their parents. Kids with competitive parents, tended to be competitive, kids with laid back parents were laid back.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
We homeschooled. Whenever we worried about socialization, we grabbed our kids, dragged them into the bathroom, and beat them up for their lunch money. I'm joking, but the point is, socialization in public school can take some horrible forms. (At least, it can in the US. Maybe schools in Australia are more sane.) That socialization isn't necessarily a good match for adult society, either, or even for university. Socialization is still a concern. But socialize your children to adult society. They don't need to be socialized to public school society.
- actfrench 5y ago
  Exactly. One out of five students report being bullied at school. https://www.pacer.org/bullying/info/stats.asp https://www.pacer.org/bullying/info/stats.asp Also a great piece in the Atlantic about how Black families are opting out of school due to institutionalized racism. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/02/the-rise-of-homeschooling-among-black-families/385543/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/02/the-ri... A film I really like on this topic is Class Dismissed. It shows the journey of two girls who leave school and it's really amazing to watch them relax, get more at ease with themselves and make friends over the course of the film.
- uoaei 5y ago
  Having been one of those kids "socialized into adult society", I was robbed of both my childhood and my serotonin. Children are indeed human beings...
  - Benjamin_Dobell 5y ago
    I'm truly sorry to hear this. This is one such concern that I have. Do you think this comes down to the "adult society" you're being integrated into? If you don't mind my asking, do you think you know the motivation for the way you were raised/educated in the manner you were raised? I imagine there are a wide variety of reasons as to why parents home school, and that the outcomes vary significantly based upon those motivations.
- sparrish 5y ago
zdragnar 5y ago
Most home schooling families I know of find others nearby and do group learning or activities on at least a semi-regular basis- plus joining local sport or acting or hobby clubs, or church groups. The image of a maladjusted home schooled kid who never met another child is something of a bad trope, I think. There are tons of resources and "toolkits" online. As a first step, I would recommend looking up a local group (or at least one in your state, since requirements vary) and talk to parents who have already done it.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  I didn't look into it yet since my kid is really young, but time is flying. Any toolkits/groups you could recommend for IL, US?
  - actfrench 5y ago
    What city are you in? There are usually local groups on Facebook. Also, try positing on SEA homeschoolers and looking for others in your area. https://facebook.com/groups/seahomeschoolers https://facebook.com/groups/seahomeschoolers Also these: llinois H.O.U.S.E “Illinois HOUSE is a statewide network of support groups for people involved in homeschooling. We provide email and phone support about issues related to Illinois homeschooling. Common questions include how to withdraw a child from public school, what the school district needs from homeschooling families and how to deal with officials who ask for more than they’re entitled to receive. We have member groups throughout the Chicago suburban area and more spread across the state.” Metro-East Secular Homeschoolers “This is a group to make like-minded connections with other homeschoolers (or those considering homeschool!) in the Metro-East area.” Pekin/Peoria Area (Illinois) Secular Homeschool Families “Any PARENT/GUARDIAN of a child 5-18 that is homeschooling in the Pekin/Peoria area is welcome to join this group. Our purpose is to connect and support other secular homeschool families in the area.” QCA Secular Homeschool Group “QCA Secular Homeschoolers is primarily geared toward families who are homeschooling for reasons other than religion and who are looking for an alternative to religious homeschool groups.” Secular Homeschoolers of Bloomington-Normal “We are an inclusive homeschool group that respects and values diverse perspectives. Our purpose is to connect and support Bloomington-Normal area homeschooling families in a non-faith based group for field trips, shared lessons, book clubs, and online discussions.” Westside H.O.U.S.E. “We are an inclusive, non-sectarian network of homeschool families who meet to enjoy activities together, share experiences and lend support to one another. Our chapter serves families throughout Greater Chicago and the Western Suburbs.”
sparrish 5y ago
I'm a father of 7 with 15-years of homeschooling experience. It's true that the first mistake most homeschooling parents make is to try and recreate the public/private school system in their home. Few find success down that path. The primary goal of schooling is to teach your children how to learn. If we provide them with the skills to learn whatever they'll need to be productive adults, they'll be more prepared for whatever the career market looks like when they're ready to join the workforce. Yes, that looks mostly like Reading/Writing/Arithmetic as grade schoolers but there's so many more options once they reach Jr. and Sr. High School. Internships and apprenticeships can be incredibly valuable as well as entrepreneurial opportunities. My sons learned things running a mobile car detailing service than could have ever been taught them in a classroom setting. There are opportunities for learning every day if we take the time to do share them with our children: grocery shopping, going to the bank, purchasing a vehicle, resolving a dispute with a neighbor. Questions from kids are one of the best ways to teach them to learn, especially if you don't know the answer. What better example is there than when you get to reply "I don't know. Let's find out together."
- tomcam 5y ago
  Beautiful. Would love to learn more about your journey. Contact details in my profile if you’re so inclined.
- 123pie123 5y ago
  We have 3 kids and have been home schooling for about 14 years, each of our three kids have different needs and completely different interests I agree with your comment 100% - if we go on holiday/ vacation they have to help in understanding the trade off of what options we chosse based on the costs and the organisation eg transportation etc.. We also teach our kids to project manage their own educational and general activities (with costs) yes they make mistakes, but they see the real world implications of the mistakes - from getting away with it, to having to cancel stuff (and still pay for it)
- oefnak 5y ago
  If you can link me to some more information on how to get started, I would be very grateful.
MCllorf 5y ago
I made an account just to comment on homeschooling since I grew up homeschooled in the US and have a lot of opinions about it. It's great if you have intelligent parents who know when to say "I don't know," but if you aren't an expert on a given subject, you should bring in a private tutor. This means that for most parents, once your kid hits highschool you can't teach them anything outside of whatever you have a bachelor's in, so to homeschool effectively you'd have to just pay for a bunch of private tutors for each subject and then you're not really homeschooling anymore. Also, depriving your kid of the socialization they'd get from more traditional non-cult schools in the US is almost universally seen as bordering on child abuse by people who grew up homeschooled, so keep that in mind moving forward. Learning how to be likeable is already difficult enough for kids who have social opportunities all day every day. The stigma absolutely did not come out of nowhere. It's unfortunately common for homeschoolers to leave the house and present as if they have autism or some other social learning disability. For some reason it isn't taught as a learnable skill, but I think nearly everyone would agree that it takes practice. There will be obvious differences between a kid that practices 2 hours per day instead of 30 minutes a week. Edit: I'd also caution anyone against giving too much credence to the stories of parents who homeschooled their children but were never homeschooled themselves. Parents and children often end up having wildly different perspectives on this subject.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > This means that for most parents, once your kid hits highschool you can't teach them anything outside of whatever you have a bachelor's in, A bigger issue is that teaching (and teaching kids even moreso than adults) is itself a skill, and a skill lots of people with degrees don't have even in their degree field. The most successful homeschool parents I've known haven't used private tutors or been omnicompetent, but have been professional educators. Who, for those who weren't professional educators of children to start with, spent a lot of effort learning about child development abd childhood education to be successful at homeschooling.
- em-bee 5y ago
  if you haven't actually gone to school then how can you judge the benefits of the socialization it provides? some of us prefer to socialize outside of school with kids that actually share our interests rather than being forced to interact with kids that we have nothing in common with. school comes with bullying, peer pressure and a lot of other negatives in socialization that only the "normal" kids will get through relatively unscathed. i count myself lucky that i only experienced mild bullying and being an outsider completely eliminated any issues of peer pressure for me as i simply had no need or desire to fit in. there are plenty of other alternatives where you can socialize. be it boy/girl scouts, music classes, some sports or other activities. of course, if you didn't get to participate in those either, then you really did miss out. i am sorry for that. your parents failed you at that point. however, if you think that school would have helped you, i would not be so sure about that.
actfrench 5y ago
Thanks so much for the great feedback. There are lots of ways for children educated by their parents to get positive social experiences. In terms of data, there have not been that many extensive studies on opting out of school in particular. And it would be hard to use that to judge the experience because there are so many different ways parents do it and reasons parent do it. What you might want to look at is research around parent participation in learning, which has been shown to be a deciding factor in student success regardless of school or teacher quality. Here are some resources and data around that. I'm also happy to talk further if you'd like insights on how to support your child making friend and learning teaching strategies as a parent. My email is manisha@modulo.app https://www.modulo.app/learning/parent-engagement https://www.modulo.app/learning/parent-engagement
overthemoon 5y ago
I was homeschooled from 4th grade on through high school ("graduated" in 04). This is my personal take on it--I don't think people should do it unless they or their partner can dedicate most of their time to it, especially if they have more than one child. It takes a tremendous amount of emotional resilience and dedication to do it right, and if you teach them into high school, you'll need outside help. I think someone up the comment chain said the same thing. This is pure anecdote, but what I can contribute is that I had a hard time being disciplined. My folks were not terribly disciplined themselves, so they struggled to pass on those skills. I had a hard time learning on my own unless it was especially interesting to me. I developed an interest in math as an adult, but as a kid I absolutely needed outside guidance as a teenager, I lacked the ability to learn it on my own and my parents couldn't help very much, so I fell behind[1]. I took some online classes, which definitely helped in some ways, but at that point I was already struggling. It set the stage for a lot of personal struggles later on. If you can do all that, and you can plug your kiddo into frequent social activities for her emotional wellbeing (homeschooling can be terribly lonely, especially for a teenager!), then I think it's a good option. [1]I get that other school options don't guarantee these things won't happen. I get that socially awkward people go to public school. I'm just saying that if you go this route, you'll have no one to blame but yourself if things go wrong. That might be a worthy risk if your other options suck. EDIT: The guy with 15 years of homeschooling experience had it EXACTLY right--do not attempt to recreate the public school experience. My mom even went so far as to create a classroom with desks the first year, God bless her.

actfrench 5y ago

Hi Benjamin, I'm the writer of the modular learning article and would be happy to speak to you (for free of course) and exchange ideas or answer questions as best I can. Please feel free to contact me at manisha[at]modulo.app I also tried to write a short piece about getting started with a modular learning approach based on how I've observed most parents do it successfully. My email is manisha[at]modulo.app if I can be of help. And this offer extends to any parent who is reading this and needs someone to talk to. modulo.app/all-resources/getting-started-with-modular-learning

actfrench 5y ago

Oh also, I'd love to hear what details would be most helpful to you. I'd really like to flesh this out more.

analog31 5y ago

I wonder the extent to which homeschool kids tend to develop the social and academic traits that resemble their parents. My kids were school-schooled, but the kids who were diligent, self disciplined, and academically inclined had parents who were professors and doctors -- fields that select for the same characteristics. My kids were involved in music, which is a popular activity among homeschool families, so we got to know quite a few people that way, and socially, the kids resembled their parents. Kids with competitive parents, tended to be competitive, kids with laid back parents were laid back.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

We homeschooled. Whenever we worried about socialization, we grabbed our kids, dragged them into the bathroom, and beat them up for their lunch money. I'm joking, but the point is, socialization in public school can take some horrible forms. (At least, it can in the US. Maybe schools in Australia are more sane.) That socialization isn't necessarily a good match for adult society, either, or even for university. Socialization is still a concern. But socialize your children to adult society. They don't need to be socialized to public school society.

actfrench 5y ago
Exactly. One out of five students report being bullied at school. https://www.pacer.org/bullying/info/stats.asp https://www.pacer.org/bullying/info/stats.asp Also a great piece in the Atlantic about how Black families are opting out of school due to institutionalized racism. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/02/the-rise-of-homeschooling-among-black-families/385543/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/02/the-ri... A film I really like on this topic is Class Dismissed. It shows the journey of two girls who leave school and it's really amazing to watch them relax, get more at ease with themselves and make friends over the course of the film.
uoaei 5y ago
Having been one of those kids "socialized into adult society", I was robbed of both my childhood and my serotonin. Children are indeed human beings...
- Benjamin_Dobell 5y ago
  I'm truly sorry to hear this. This is one such concern that I have. Do you think this comes down to the "adult society" you're being integrated into? If you don't mind my asking, do you think you know the motivation for the way you were raised/educated in the manner you were raised? I imagine there are a wide variety of reasons as to why parents home school, and that the outcomes vary significantly based upon those motivations.
sparrish 5y ago

zdragnar 5y ago

Most home schooling families I know of find others nearby and do group learning or activities on at least a semi-regular basis- plus joining local sport or acting or hobby clubs, or church groups. The image of a maladjusted home schooled kid who never met another child is something of a bad trope, I think. There are tons of resources and "toolkits" online. As a first step, I would recommend looking up a local group (or at least one in your state, since requirements vary) and talk to parents who have already done it.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
I didn't look into it yet since my kid is really young, but time is flying. Any toolkits/groups you could recommend for IL, US?
- actfrench 5y ago
  What city are you in? There are usually local groups on Facebook. Also, try positing on SEA homeschoolers and looking for others in your area. https://facebook.com/groups/seahomeschoolers https://facebook.com/groups/seahomeschoolers Also these: llinois H.O.U.S.E “Illinois HOUSE is a statewide network of support groups for people involved in homeschooling. We provide email and phone support about issues related to Illinois homeschooling. Common questions include how to withdraw a child from public school, what the school district needs from homeschooling families and how to deal with officials who ask for more than they’re entitled to receive. We have member groups throughout the Chicago suburban area and more spread across the state.” Metro-East Secular Homeschoolers “This is a group to make like-minded connections with other homeschoolers (or those considering homeschool!) in the Metro-East area.” Pekin/Peoria Area (Illinois) Secular Homeschool Families “Any PARENT/GUARDIAN of a child 5-18 that is homeschooling in the Pekin/Peoria area is welcome to join this group. Our purpose is to connect and support other secular homeschool families in the area.” QCA Secular Homeschool Group “QCA Secular Homeschoolers is primarily geared toward families who are homeschooling for reasons other than religion and who are looking for an alternative to religious homeschool groups.” Secular Homeschoolers of Bloomington-Normal “We are an inclusive homeschool group that respects and values diverse perspectives. Our purpose is to connect and support Bloomington-Normal area homeschooling families in a non-faith based group for field trips, shared lessons, book clubs, and online discussions.” Westside H.O.U.S.E. “We are an inclusive, non-sectarian network of homeschool families who meet to enjoy activities together, share experiences and lend support to one another. Our chapter serves families throughout Greater Chicago and the Western Suburbs.”

sparrish 5y ago

I'm a father of 7 with 15-years of homeschooling experience. It's true that the first mistake most homeschooling parents make is to try and recreate the public/private school system in their home. Few find success down that path. The primary goal of schooling is to teach your children how to learn. If we provide them with the skills to learn whatever they'll need to be productive adults, they'll be more prepared for whatever the career market looks like when they're ready to join the workforce. Yes, that looks mostly like Reading/Writing/Arithmetic as grade schoolers but there's so many more options once they reach Jr. and Sr. High School. Internships and apprenticeships can be incredibly valuable as well as entrepreneurial opportunities. My sons learned things running a mobile car detailing service than could have ever been taught them in a classroom setting. There are opportunities for learning every day if we take the time to do share them with our children: grocery shopping, going to the bank, purchasing a vehicle, resolving a dispute with a neighbor. Questions from kids are one of the best ways to teach them to learn, especially if you don't know the answer. What better example is there than when you get to reply "I don't know. Let's find out together."

tomcam 5y ago
Beautiful. Would love to learn more about your journey. Contact details in my profile if you’re so inclined.
123pie123 5y ago
We have 3 kids and have been home schooling for about 14 years, each of our three kids have different needs and completely different interests I agree with your comment 100% - if we go on holiday/ vacation they have to help in understanding the trade off of what options we chosse based on the costs and the organisation eg transportation etc.. We also teach our kids to project manage their own educational and general activities (with costs) yes they make mistakes, but they see the real world implications of the mistakes - from getting away with it, to having to cancel stuff (and still pay for it)
oefnak 5y ago
If you can link me to some more information on how to get started, I would be very grateful.

MCllorf 5y ago

I made an account just to comment on homeschooling since I grew up homeschooled in the US and have a lot of opinions about it. It's great if you have intelligent parents who know when to say "I don't know," but if you aren't an expert on a given subject, you should bring in a private tutor. This means that for most parents, once your kid hits highschool you can't teach them anything outside of whatever you have a bachelor's in, so to homeschool effectively you'd have to just pay for a bunch of private tutors for each subject and then you're not really homeschooling anymore. Also, depriving your kid of the socialization they'd get from more traditional non-cult schools in the US is almost universally seen as bordering on child abuse by people who grew up homeschooled, so keep that in mind moving forward. Learning how to be likeable is already difficult enough for kids who have social opportunities all day every day. The stigma absolutely did not come out of nowhere. It's unfortunately common for homeschoolers to leave the house and present as if they have autism or some other social learning disability. For some reason it isn't taught as a learnable skill, but I think nearly everyone would agree that it takes practice. There will be obvious differences between a kid that practices 2 hours per day instead of 30 minutes a week. Edit: I'd also caution anyone against giving too much credence to the stories of parents who homeschooled their children but were never homeschooled themselves. Parents and children often end up having wildly different perspectives on this subject.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> This means that for most parents, once your kid hits highschool you can't teach them anything outside of whatever you have a bachelor's in, A bigger issue is that teaching (and teaching kids even moreso than adults) is itself a skill, and a skill lots of people with degrees don't have even in their degree field. The most successful homeschool parents I've known haven't used private tutors or been omnicompetent, but have been professional educators. Who, for those who weren't professional educators of children to start with, spent a lot of effort learning about child development abd childhood education to be successful at homeschooling.
em-bee 5y ago
if you haven't actually gone to school then how can you judge the benefits of the socialization it provides? some of us prefer to socialize outside of school with kids that actually share our interests rather than being forced to interact with kids that we have nothing in common with. school comes with bullying, peer pressure and a lot of other negatives in socialization that only the "normal" kids will get through relatively unscathed. i count myself lucky that i only experienced mild bullying and being an outsider completely eliminated any issues of peer pressure for me as i simply had no need or desire to fit in. there are plenty of other alternatives where you can socialize. be it boy/girl scouts, music classes, some sports or other activities. of course, if you didn't get to participate in those either, then you really did miss out. i am sorry for that. your parents failed you at that point. however, if you think that school would have helped you, i would not be so sure about that.

actfrench 5y ago

Thanks so much for the great feedback. There are lots of ways for children educated by their parents to get positive social experiences. In terms of data, there have not been that many extensive studies on opting out of school in particular. And it would be hard to use that to judge the experience because there are so many different ways parents do it and reasons parent do it. What you might want to look at is research around parent participation in learning, which has been shown to be a deciding factor in student success regardless of school or teacher quality. Here are some resources and data around that. I'm also happy to talk further if you'd like insights on how to support your child making friend and learning teaching strategies as a parent. My email is manisha@modulo.app https://www.modulo.app/learning/parent-engagement https://www.modulo.app/learning/parent-engagement

overthemoon 5y ago

I was homeschooled from 4th grade on through high school ("graduated" in 04). This is my personal take on it--I don't think people should do it unless they or their partner can dedicate most of their time to it, especially if they have more than one child. It takes a tremendous amount of emotional resilience and dedication to do it right, and if you teach them into high school, you'll need outside help. I think someone up the comment chain said the same thing. This is pure anecdote, but what I can contribute is that I had a hard time being disciplined. My folks were not terribly disciplined themselves, so they struggled to pass on those skills. I had a hard time learning on my own unless it was especially interesting to me. I developed an interest in math as an adult, but as a kid I absolutely needed outside guidance as a teenager, I lacked the ability to learn it on my own and my parents couldn't help very much, so I fell behind[1]. I took some online classes, which definitely helped in some ways, but at that point I was already struggling. It set the stage for a lot of personal struggles later on. If you can do all that, and you can plug your kiddo into frequent social activities for her emotional wellbeing (homeschooling can be terribly lonely, especially for a teenager!), then I think it's a good option. [1]I get that other school options don't guarantee these things won't happen. I get that socially awkward people go to public school. I'm just saying that if you go this route, you'll have no one to blame but yourself if things go wrong. That might be a worthy risk if your other options suck. EDIT: The guy with 15 years of homeschooling experience had it EXACTLY right--do not attempt to recreate the public school experience. My mom even went so far as to create a classroom with desks the first year, God bless her.