4 ms·

"we want to prevent counterfeiters" Hear that? Counterfeiters. As in: criminals. Very, very not open source.

kube-system 5y ago
It is absolutely possible to counterfeit open sourced designs. Copyrights and trademarks are entirely different types of IP.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  Copyrights and trademarks are entirely different types of IP. ...therefore it's possible to infringe THE TRADEMARK with a counterfeit product. There is no such thing as counterfeiting the open source design. EDIT: I'll add examples, it might help with the downvotes I'm getting: - an OEM can make exact copies of a truly OH board but sell it under a different name and brand. Trademark is safe and Open Source is working as intended. - another OEM can make its own Arduino clone with a different PCB layout and slap the Arduino logo and name on it. Trademark is breached and openness is lost and this is already happening.
danielheath 5y ago
Counterfeiters. As in, people who harm your reputation by using your name to sell inferior goods. They send the design files to a dropshipping company, put up an Aliexpress listing claiming the goods are endorsed by Arduino, then collect money without actually having created any value (other than to connect a factory with no quality control to a user who thought they were getting a working chip). This is about a flood of sellers illegally using their branding - too numerous to make chasing them individually accross jurisdictions. Saying "Design files available on request" means they want some evidence you have a use in mind that isn't "make a buck ruining everyone elses day"
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I’ve used somewhere between 75 and 125 “Arduinos” over the years in various projects and a device I sell in (obviously) low volume. All of the Chinese boards have worked fine for my purposes. Are they Arduinos? No. Do they work at 10-25% of the price? Yes.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Plenty of knock-offs are serviceable products. That doesn’t mean it’s okay to misrepresent the manufacturer of the product.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      Most don't. They'll call themselves "Wingduino" or something like that, and advertise themselves openly as "Arduino Compatible".
      - kube-system 5y ago
        Most don’t but I’ve seen some blatant offenders in my search results every time I’ve put in an order.
  - Pick-A-Hill2019 5y ago
    I'm curious about the product you sell. Do you make it clear to your customers that you are selling a product that uses a cheap knock-off board? I would hope the answer to that is 'yes' so I'm curious about what their reaction/responses have been? Do the "Arduinos" you use in your device have any markings that are different from a genuine Arduino?
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I sell a box that performs a task. (It's a slightly specialized OBD2/CANbus scanner that uses an AVR microcontroller.) So long as the box performs the task, it could have a woodpecker typing a picture onto a stone tablet for all the users care. If it doesn't perform the task, they'd rightly complain whether it was a Genuino, a Fakeaduino, a 6502, AVR, ESP32, or Core i7. I do not advertise the device as containing any specific board and the vendor I buy from does not use the Arduino mark either. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32799911396.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dJKs5OM https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32799911396.html?spm=a2g0s.9...
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Apart from the problem of claiming Arduino endorsement, they do add value: they "make a buck" by organizing the production & sales of a product at a more competitive price. It puts an educational board in the hands of people that might not otherwise afford it: On small school budgets a STEM program might not be able to afford $20 for 500 students each year, while $5 is easier to manage. Or it might mean the program can afford both a cheap Arduino clone and cheap Pi Zeros to learn development at multiple levels and different languages.

It is absolutely possible to counterfeit open sourced designs. Copyrights and trademarks are entirely different types of IP.

goodpoint 5y ago
Copyrights and trademarks are entirely different types of IP. ...therefore it's possible to infringe THE TRADEMARK with a counterfeit product. There is no such thing as counterfeiting the open source design. EDIT: I'll add examples, it might help with the downvotes I'm getting: - an OEM can make exact copies of a truly OH board but sell it under a different name and brand. Trademark is safe and Open Source is working as intended. - another OEM can make its own Arduino clone with a different PCB layout and slap the Arduino logo and name on it. Trademark is breached and openness is lost and this is already happening.

danielheath 5y ago

Counterfeiters. As in, people who harm your reputation by using your name to sell inferior goods. They send the design files to a dropshipping company, put up an Aliexpress listing claiming the goods are endorsed by Arduino, then collect money without actually having created any value (other than to connect a factory with no quality control to a user who thought they were getting a working chip). This is about a flood of sellers illegally using their branding - too numerous to make chasing them individually accross jurisdictions. Saying "Design files available on request" means they want some evidence you have a use in mind that isn't "make a buck ruining everyone elses day"

sokoloff 5y ago
I’ve used somewhere between 75 and 125 “Arduinos” over the years in various projects and a device I sell in (obviously) low volume. All of the Chinese boards have worked fine for my purposes. Are they Arduinos? No. Do they work at 10-25% of the price? Yes.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Plenty of knock-offs are serviceable products. That doesn’t mean it’s okay to misrepresent the manufacturer of the product.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    Most don't. They'll call themselves "Wingduino" or something like that, and advertise themselves openly as "Arduino Compatible".
    - kube-system 5y ago
      Most don’t but I’ve seen some blatant offenders in my search results every time I’ve put in an order.
- Pick-A-Hill2019 5y ago
  I'm curious about the product you sell. Do you make it clear to your customers that you are selling a product that uses a cheap knock-off board? I would hope the answer to that is 'yes' so I'm curious about what their reaction/responses have been? Do the "Arduinos" you use in your device have any markings that are different from a genuine Arduino?
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I sell a box that performs a task. (It's a slightly specialized OBD2/CANbus scanner that uses an AVR microcontroller.) So long as the box performs the task, it could have a woodpecker typing a picture onto a stone tablet for all the users care. If it doesn't perform the task, they'd rightly complain whether it was a Genuino, a Fakeaduino, a 6502, AVR, ESP32, or Core i7. I do not advertise the device as containing any specific board and the vendor I buy from does not use the Arduino mark either. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32799911396.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dJKs5OM https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32799911396.html?spm=a2g0s.9...
ineedasername 5y ago
Apart from the problem of claiming Arduino endorsement, they do add value: they "make a buck" by organizing the production & sales of a product at a more competitive price. It puts an educational board in the hands of people that might not otherwise afford it: On small school budgets a STEM program might not be able to afford $20 for 500 students each year, while $5 is easier to manage. Or it might mean the program can afford both a cheap Arduino clone and cheap Pi Zeros to learn development at multiple levels and different languages.