4 ms·

How does an unconscious person disclose their blood group and genotype, that they are diabetic, that they have a history of migraines, that they have an allergi

How does an unconscious person disclose their blood group and genotype, that they are diabetic, that they have a history of migraines, that they have an allergic reaction to X medications, or any of the other things that are more immediately and more dangerously pertinent in a medical emergency than their sex? Should we start putting all of these things on general-purpose IDs as well, since medical personnel need to know them? As an aside, it seems to me that it's only profoundly healthy people that wring their hands this much about sex in medical contexts. Those of us who actually have to pop in and out of hospitals fairly often know that there are a host of other things we would need a new doctor or nurse to know first, and know that there are already ways to communicate existing conditions to the people that need to know them: medical IDs. In the case of the police officer, this might be a shock but I am 0% in support of taking unconscious, unresponsive people into custody and not to a medical facility (and it's frankly completely baffling once again that you seem to think that the police officer is supposed to process someone that is unconscious into jail. Just...what?).

the_third_wave 5y ago
People with specific diseases - diabetes [1], epilepsy [2], etc - and those using specific medicines - corticosteroids [3], etc - carry documents which tell emergency services about them. This also goes for severe allergies - think Penicillin allergy. They tend to carry these documents in their wallet or with their ID, especially when travelling abroad. The documents often carry messages in several languages so as to be intelligible to as many people as possible. [1] https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetic-products/medipal-card.html https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetic-products/medipal-card.ht... [2] https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/safety-aids-equipment/medical-id-products https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/safety-aids-equi... [3] https://www.dorsetccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/aboutus/medicines-management/Other%20Guidelines/Steroid%20Cards%20In%20Focus.pdf https://www.dorsetccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/aboutus/medicines-man...
- filleduchaos 5y ago
  Yes, that is literally what I said - medical IDs, which are presented where and to whom it is relevant and necessary. Not on general purpose IDs that need to be presented to anybody including a random bartender or some web service that's asking for KYC docs. I don't mean to insinuate but I do have to ask if you're actually reading what I'm saying in good faith or just reacting.
  - the_third_wave 5y ago
    > I don't mean to insinuate but I do have to ask if you're actually reading what I'm saying in good faith or just reacting. I am reacting to the increasing trend of renormalisation of the exception to make it the new norm(al). If the new normal is not to denote sex in the passport this would mean that everyone would need to carry an additional document - like the medical IDs mentioned - to identify themselves as male or female to the aforementioned police officer [1] and doctor to avoid the mentioned risks. [1] as to your earlier remark about me seem[ing] to think that the police officer is supposed to process someone that is unconscious into jail. Just...what? - realise that different countries have different norms, no matter what you may think of that. The Indonesian police officer will act according to Indonesian norms, not according to yours. While what you or I think about those norms is up to us, it is decidedly not up to us to dictate our norms to others.
    - filleduchaos 5y ago
      > I am reacting to the increasing trend of renormalisation of the exception to make it the new norm(al). So in essence you really are not paying attention to what I'm actually saying, you just have an axe to grind and are determined to grind it regardless of what I say. If that's not the case, I'm very interested indeed to know how exactly you arrived at "everyone would need to carry an additional document" from "denoting your sex on general-purpose identification should be opt-in". To me it would seem patently obvious to anybody who is not jumping to argue that the only people who would need to carry additional papers are those who have chosen to (by deciding not to put their sex on their passports, driver's licenses or what have you). I think it would be worth your while to interrogate why your kneejerk reaction to "it should be the individual's choice to disclose this information" is to translate it to "nobody should disclose this information". > While what you or I think about those norms is up to us, it is decidedly not up to us to dictate our norms to others. First of all I guarantee that we are not from the same country nor do we share norms. Second of all, it's not the norm in Indonesia to (for example) recognise same-sex marriages, but I fail to see how this is an argument about those in such marriages owning documents that reflect their union (or making their own decisions about where they can take those documents to and what workarounds they might need where their validity is not recognised). And finally I frankly do not understand what your point is with the police officer. What exactly happens to an unconscious woman in a street in Indonesia found by a police officer with an X in her passport as opposed to an F (or with no passport at all, which is by far the most likely option)?

the_third_wave 5y ago

People with specific diseases - diabetes [1], epilepsy [2], etc - and those using specific medicines - corticosteroids [3], etc - carry documents which tell emergency services about them. This also goes for severe allergies - think Penicillin allergy. They tend to carry these documents in their wallet or with their ID, especially when travelling abroad. The documents often carry messages in several languages so as to be intelligible to as many people as possible. [1] https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetic-products/medipal-card.html https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetic-products/medipal-card.ht... [2] https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/safety-aids-equipment/medical-id-products https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/safety-aids-equi... [3] https://www.dorsetccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/aboutus/medicines-management/Other%20Guidelines/Steroid%20Cards%20In%20Focus.pdf https://www.dorsetccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/aboutus/medicines-man...

filleduchaos 5y ago
Yes, that is literally what I said - medical IDs, which are presented where and to whom it is relevant and necessary. Not on general purpose IDs that need to be presented to anybody including a random bartender or some web service that's asking for KYC docs. I don't mean to insinuate but I do have to ask if you're actually reading what I'm saying in good faith or just reacting.
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  > I don't mean to insinuate but I do have to ask if you're actually reading what I'm saying in good faith or just reacting. I am reacting to the increasing trend of renormalisation of the exception to make it the new norm(al). If the new normal is not to denote sex in the passport this would mean that everyone would need to carry an additional document - like the medical IDs mentioned - to identify themselves as male or female to the aforementioned police officer [1] and doctor to avoid the mentioned risks. [1] as to your earlier remark about me seem[ing] to think that the police officer is supposed to process someone that is unconscious into jail. Just...what? - realise that different countries have different norms, no matter what you may think of that. The Indonesian police officer will act according to Indonesian norms, not according to yours. While what you or I think about those norms is up to us, it is decidedly not up to us to dictate our norms to others.
  - filleduchaos 5y ago
    > I am reacting to the increasing trend of renormalisation of the exception to make it the new norm(al). So in essence you really are not paying attention to what I'm actually saying, you just have an axe to grind and are determined to grind it regardless of what I say. If that's not the case, I'm very interested indeed to know how exactly you arrived at "everyone would need to carry an additional document" from "denoting your sex on general-purpose identification should be opt-in". To me it would seem patently obvious to anybody who is not jumping to argue that the only people who would need to carry additional papers are those who have chosen to (by deciding not to put their sex on their passports, driver's licenses or what have you). I think it would be worth your while to interrogate why your kneejerk reaction to "it should be the individual's choice to disclose this information" is to translate it to "nobody should disclose this information". > While what you or I think about those norms is up to us, it is decidedly not up to us to dictate our norms to others. First of all I guarantee that we are not from the same country nor do we share norms. Second of all, it's not the norm in Indonesia to (for example) recognise same-sex marriages, but I fail to see how this is an argument about those in such marriages owning documents that reflect their union (or making their own decisions about where they can take those documents to and what workarounds they might need where their validity is not recognised). And finally I frankly do not understand what your point is with the police officer. What exactly happens to an unconscious woman in a street in Indonesia found by a police officer with an X in her passport as opposed to an F (or with no passport at all, which is by far the most likely option)?