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Nobody needs cookies to track users cross-site. Cookies are just convenient.

jefftk 5y ago
All the browsers have said that they consider general-purpose cross-site tracking to be deprecated, not just cookies. They are working on removing other forms of linking users across sites, including the browser cache, link decoration, and fingerprinting.
- Jonsvt 5y ago
  And some of them, such as Google, are working on FLOC... This has got to stop now.
  - jefftk 5y ago
    Creating more private alternatives to cross-site ad tracking is a project that most of the major browsers are working on. In addition to Chrome, Edge has https://github.com/WICG/privacy-preserving-ads/blob/main/Parakeet.md https://github.com/WICG/privacy-preserving-ads/blob/main/Par... and Safari has https://webkit.org/blog/8943/privacy-preserving-ad-click-attribution-for-the-web/ https://webkit.org/blog/8943/privacy-preserving-ad-click-att...
    - Jonsvt 5y ago
      These are not more private alternatives. This is just tracking using other methods. FLOC is tracking and it is in no way more private.
      - jefftk 5y ago
        Setting aside whether FLoC is private enough, how can you say it is not more private? Today, with third party cookies, many companies have almost your entire browsing history through a combination of direct tracking and cookie matching. With FLoC this information stays on your device, and only a summary is made available to sites.
        Jonsvt 5y ago
        Feel free to read : https://vivaldi.com/blog/no-google-vivaldi-users-will-not-get-floced/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/no-google-vivaldi-users-will-not-ge... Really, FLOC is for me the ultimate betrayal. The browser is not supposed to make an ad profile based on the browsing history. It is just wrong.
        jefftk 5y ago
        I'm not sure which part of the post you're referring to when you say that FLoC isn't more private than the status quo; is it the "FLoC will expose your data. More than ever." section? That has "Now every website will get to see an ID that was generated from your behaviour on every other website", but this is not what Chrome has said: "Websites can exclude a page from the FLoC calculation by setting a Permissions-Policy header interest-cohort=() for that page. For pages that haven't been excluded, a page visit will be included in the browser's FLoC calculation if document.interestCohort() is used on the page. During the current FLoC origin trial, a page will also be included in the calculation if Chrome detects that the page loads ads or ads-related resources." -- https://web.dev/floc/#do-websites-have-to-participate-and-share-information https://web.dev/floc/#do-websites-have-to-participate-and-sh...
        Jonsvt 5y ago
        Suddenly the tracking includes all sites and pages. That is not an improvement. Having an opt out or even an opt in is not the solution here. We have all seen how that works. The tracking just has to stop. Google can generate plenty of revenue without tracking us. They were in fact making plenty before they moved from context sensitive ads to surveillance-based ads.
        jefftk 5y ago
        > the tracking includes all sites and pages But it doesn't! They are proposing, in the stable version, to include only pages that opt in by calling the FLoC API. For the origin trial in particular, to avoid a chicken-and-egg issue, they are also including pages that have ads. Since ads today make extensive use of third-party cookies for cross-site tracking, This is still not anything like "all sites and pages". (Still speaking only for myself)

All the browsers have said that they consider general-purpose cross-site tracking to be deprecated, not just cookies. They are working on removing other forms of linking users across sites, including the browser cache, link decoration, and fingerprinting.

Jonsvt 5y ago
And some of them, such as Google, are working on FLOC... This has got to stop now.
- jefftk 5y ago
  Creating more private alternatives to cross-site ad tracking is a project that most of the major browsers are working on. In addition to Chrome, Edge has https://github.com/WICG/privacy-preserving-ads/blob/main/Parakeet.md https://github.com/WICG/privacy-preserving-ads/blob/main/Par... and Safari has https://webkit.org/blog/8943/privacy-preserving-ad-click-attribution-for-the-web/ https://webkit.org/blog/8943/privacy-preserving-ad-click-att...
  - Jonsvt 5y ago
    These are not more private alternatives. This is just tracking using other methods. FLOC is tracking and it is in no way more private.
    - jefftk 5y ago
      Setting aside whether FLoC is private enough, how can you say it is not more private? Today, with third party cookies, many companies have almost your entire browsing history through a combination of direct tracking and cookie matching. With FLoC this information stays on your device, and only a summary is made available to sites.
      - Jonsvt 5y ago
        Feel free to read : https://vivaldi.com/blog/no-google-vivaldi-users-will-not-get-floced/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/no-google-vivaldi-users-will-not-ge... Really, FLOC is for me the ultimate betrayal. The browser is not supposed to make an ad profile based on the browsing history. It is just wrong.
        jefftk 5y ago
        I'm not sure which part of the post you're referring to when you say that FLoC isn't more private than the status quo; is it the "FLoC will expose your data. More than ever." section? That has "Now every website will get to see an ID that was generated from your behaviour on every other website", but this is not what Chrome has said: "Websites can exclude a page from the FLoC calculation by setting a Permissions-Policy header interest-cohort=() for that page. For pages that haven't been excluded, a page visit will be included in the browser's FLoC calculation if document.interestCohort() is used on the page. During the current FLoC origin trial, a page will also be included in the calculation if Chrome detects that the page loads ads or ads-related resources." -- https://web.dev/floc/#do-websites-have-to-participate-and-share-information https://web.dev/floc/#do-websites-have-to-participate-and-sh...
        Jonsvt 5y ago
        Suddenly the tracking includes all sites and pages. That is not an improvement. Having an opt out or even an opt in is not the solution here. We have all seen how that works. The tracking just has to stop. Google can generate plenty of revenue without tracking us. They were in fact making plenty before they moved from context sensitive ads to surveillance-based ads.
        jefftk 5y ago
        > the tracking includes all sites and pages But it doesn't! They are proposing, in the stable version, to include only pages that opt in by calling the FLoC API. For the origin trial in particular, to avoid a chicken-and-egg issue, they are also including pages that have ads. Since ads today make extensive use of third-party cookies for cross-site tracking, This is still not anything like "all sites and pages". (Still speaking only for myself)