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It's somewhat baffling to me that you wrote out this entire paragraph about how sex is a pertinent factor in medical contexts when my proposal was literally "a

It's somewhat baffling to me that you wrote out this entire paragraph about how sex is a pertinent factor in medical contexts when my proposal was literally "a person should have to opt in to disclose their gender/sex except where actually necessary (e.g. in medical contexts)". It's generally more productive when people don't make such clear knee-jerk responses to comments.

the_third_wave 5y ago
Did you miss where I wrote about the woman lying unconscious on the street in Bali after drinking too much and the question what the Indonesian police officer would do with her? Being unconscious she would not be able to tell him that she was a woman. The same goes for medical emergencies where being unconscious is not uncommon. How would an unconscious person disclose their sex? Please read the whole entry before commenting about 'knee-jerk responses to comments*.
- filleduchaos 5y ago
  How does an unconscious person disclose their blood group and genotype, that they are diabetic, that they have a history of migraines, that they have an allergic reaction to X medications, or any of the other things that are more immediately and more dangerously pertinent in a medical emergency than their sex? Should we start putting all of these things on general-purpose IDs as well, since medical personnel need to know them? As an aside, it seems to me that it's only profoundly healthy people that wring their hands this much about sex in medical contexts. Those of us who actually have to pop in and out of hospitals fairly often know that there are a host of other things we would need a new doctor or nurse to know first, and know that there are already ways to communicate existing conditions to the people that need to know them: medical IDs. In the case of the police officer, this might be a shock but I am 0% in support of taking unconscious, unresponsive people into custody and not to a medical facility (and it's frankly completely baffling once again that you seem to think that the police officer is supposed to process someone that is unconscious into jail. Just...what?).
  - the_third_wave 5y ago
    People with specific diseases - diabetes [1], epilepsy [2], etc - and those using specific medicines - corticosteroids [3], etc - carry documents which tell emergency services about them. This also goes for severe allergies - think Penicillin allergy. They tend to carry these documents in their wallet or with their ID, especially when travelling abroad. The documents often carry messages in several languages so as to be intelligible to as many people as possible. [1] https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetic-products/medipal-card.html https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetic-products/medipal-card.ht... [2] https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/safety-aids-equipment/medical-id-products https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/safety-aids-equi... [3] https://www.dorsetccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/aboutus/medicines-management/Other%20Guidelines/Steroid%20Cards%20In%20Focus.pdf https://www.dorsetccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/aboutus/medicines-man...
    - filleduchaos 5y ago
      Yes, that is literally what I said - medical IDs, which are presented where and to whom it is relevant and necessary. Not on general purpose IDs that need to be presented to anybody including a random bartender or some web service that's asking for KYC docs. I don't mean to insinuate but I do have to ask if you're actually reading what I'm saying in good faith or just reacting.
      - the_third_wave 5y ago
        > I don't mean to insinuate but I do have to ask if you're actually reading what I'm saying in good faith or just reacting. I am reacting to the increasing trend of renormalisation of the exception to make it the new norm(al). If the new normal is not to denote sex in the passport this would mean that everyone would need to carry an additional document - like the medical IDs mentioned - to identify themselves as male or female to the aforementioned police officer [1] and doctor to avoid the mentioned risks. [1] as to your earlier remark about me seem[ing] to think that the police officer is supposed to process someone that is unconscious into jail. Just...what? - realise that different countries have different norms, no matter what you may think of that. The Indonesian police officer will act according to Indonesian norms, not according to yours. While what you or I think about those norms is up to us, it is decidedly not up to us to dictate our norms to others.

the_third_wave 5y ago

Did you miss where I wrote about the woman lying unconscious on the street in Bali after drinking too much and the question what the Indonesian police officer would do with her? Being unconscious she would not be able to tell him that she was a woman. The same goes for medical emergencies where being unconscious is not uncommon. How would an unconscious person disclose their sex? Please read the whole entry before commenting about 'knee-jerk responses to comments*.

filleduchaos 5y ago
How does an unconscious person disclose their blood group and genotype, that they are diabetic, that they have a history of migraines, that they have an allergic reaction to X medications, or any of the other things that are more immediately and more dangerously pertinent in a medical emergency than their sex? Should we start putting all of these things on general-purpose IDs as well, since medical personnel need to know them? As an aside, it seems to me that it's only profoundly healthy people that wring their hands this much about sex in medical contexts. Those of us who actually have to pop in and out of hospitals fairly often know that there are a host of other things we would need a new doctor or nurse to know first, and know that there are already ways to communicate existing conditions to the people that need to know them: medical IDs. In the case of the police officer, this might be a shock but I am 0% in support of taking unconscious, unresponsive people into custody and not to a medical facility (and it's frankly completely baffling once again that you seem to think that the police officer is supposed to process someone that is unconscious into jail. Just...what?).
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  People with specific diseases - diabetes [1], epilepsy [2], etc - and those using specific medicines - corticosteroids [3], etc - carry documents which tell emergency services about them. This also goes for severe allergies - think Penicillin allergy. They tend to carry these documents in their wallet or with their ID, especially when travelling abroad. The documents often carry messages in several languages so as to be intelligible to as many people as possible. [1] https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetic-products/medipal-card.html https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetic-products/medipal-card.ht... [2] https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/safety-aids-equipment/medical-id-products https://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/daily-life/safety-aids-equi... [3] https://www.dorsetccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/aboutus/medicines-management/Other%20Guidelines/Steroid%20Cards%20In%20Focus.pdf https://www.dorsetccg.nhs.uk/Downloads/aboutus/medicines-man...
  - filleduchaos 5y ago
    Yes, that is literally what I said - medical IDs, which are presented where and to whom it is relevant and necessary. Not on general purpose IDs that need to be presented to anybody including a random bartender or some web service that's asking for KYC docs. I don't mean to insinuate but I do have to ask if you're actually reading what I'm saying in good faith or just reacting.
    - the_third_wave 5y ago
      > I don't mean to insinuate but I do have to ask if you're actually reading what I'm saying in good faith or just reacting. I am reacting to the increasing trend of renormalisation of the exception to make it the new norm(al). If the new normal is not to denote sex in the passport this would mean that everyone would need to carry an additional document - like the medical IDs mentioned - to identify themselves as male or female to the aforementioned police officer [1] and doctor to avoid the mentioned risks. [1] as to your earlier remark about me seem[ing] to think that the police officer is supposed to process someone that is unconscious into jail. Just...what? - realise that different countries have different norms, no matter what you may think of that. The Indonesian police officer will act according to Indonesian norms, not according to yours. While what you or I think about those norms is up to us, it is decidedly not up to us to dictate our norms to others.