4 ms·

What even is a bitcoin "user"? Like, seriously, are we talking about people transacting with it for purchases? Or just accounts that have some share of a coin i

by moate 5y ago

What even is a bitcoin "user"? Like, seriously, are we talking about people transacting with it for purchases? Or just accounts that have some share of a coin in them? What are we even measuring here?

washedup 5y ago
They measure (estimate, really) based on how many wallets/address exist on the blockchain.
- cmckn 5y ago
  Pretty dodgy approach though, because there are various services that provide Bitcoin "functionality" for many users with a handful of wallet addresses, or use many different wallet addresses to mix/launder transactions.
  - washedup 5y ago
    Better than nothing. A lot of estimates I've seen try to solve for these issues but there isn's a completely clean way to do it.
  - rawtxapp 5y ago
    Yeah, difficult to correlate number of addresses with users. Ethereum is probably a better approximation since users there tend to use a single address for everything. Another way I estimate usage/adoption is looking at Google Trends and comparing it against something I can use as a baseline (in my case "reddit"), right now Bitcoin averages around ~30-40% of search query volume compared to reddit [1] (and even more if you look at worldwide queries) which is obviously not perfect comparison, but is an interesting datapoint. 1: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=bitcoin,reddit https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...
sslayer 5y ago
Without mainstream acceptance through purchase transactions Bitcoin has no hope of going anywhere. People holding for investment, while profitable, is absurd if ultimately the final holder can not exchange it for goods. I am not an economist, but I do hold the position that money is used for the exchange of goods and its only value is in its acceptance and exchange rate.
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  People hold it because historically it appreciated greatly, so they expect that to continue. But it can't appreciate the average of 300% YoY forever, sooner or later, it will hit diminishing returns at which point people will be more willing to spend it. It's essentially Gresham's law in action[1]. Also for those that want to spend it, there are lots of options now for crypto backed debit/credit cards. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law
- washedup 5y ago
  What about gold? It's been around for thousands of years first as a medium of exchange and today as store-of-value, but is never used for transactions today. That's doesnt make it "bad money", it just makes it different than a currency.
- doublejay1999 5y ago
  so what bitcoin (and of course other crypto) is, is complex and ultimately subjective : it's different things to different people, just like money. It does some things money can do & does some things that money cannot. FIAT money is the same, It does some s bitcoin can't but cannot do some things bitcoin can. instead of advancing a concrete definition of crypto - which as i said is a subjective argument - i'd encourage you to look at what money, monetarism & fiat really are. It's equally subjective, and arguably a more difficult concept that crypto. At the moment, traditional cash can be spent much more freely than crypto, which is one of things limiting it's utility as a currency. But similarly, the lack of an immutable ledger, a practically infinite(or a least unknown) supply, and risk of physical counterfeits limits Cash as store of value. ....right now...crypto is something. Even if it's yet to be fully realised. It's mainstream, at least as an investible asset and It has some utility as currency, albeit limited. For people in developed countries, with established currencies backed by a military force, either directly of indirectly, it will seem quite absurd that crypto could/should replace cash. For people in unstable regimes, countries who've experienced hyperinflation, it's a massively attractive proposition.

by moate 5y ago

washedup 5y ago

They measure (estimate, really) based on how many wallets/address exist on the blockchain.

cmckn 5y ago
Pretty dodgy approach though, because there are various services that provide Bitcoin "functionality" for many users with a handful of wallet addresses, or use many different wallet addresses to mix/launder transactions.
- washedup 5y ago
  Better than nothing. A lot of estimates I've seen try to solve for these issues but there isn's a completely clean way to do it.
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  Yeah, difficult to correlate number of addresses with users. Ethereum is probably a better approximation since users there tend to use a single address for everything. Another way I estimate usage/adoption is looking at Google Trends and comparing it against something I can use as a baseline (in my case "reddit"), right now Bitcoin averages around ~30-40% of search query volume compared to reddit [1] (and even more if you look at worldwide queries) which is obviously not perfect comparison, but is an interesting datapoint. 1: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=bitcoin,reddit https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...

sslayer 5y ago

Without mainstream acceptance through purchase transactions Bitcoin has no hope of going anywhere. People holding for investment, while profitable, is absurd if ultimately the final holder can not exchange it for goods. I am not an economist, but I do hold the position that money is used for the exchange of goods and its only value is in its acceptance and exchange rate.

rawtxapp 5y ago
People hold it because historically it appreciated greatly, so they expect that to continue. But it can't appreciate the average of 300% YoY forever, sooner or later, it will hit diminishing returns at which point people will be more willing to spend it. It's essentially Gresham's law in action[1]. Also for those that want to spend it, there are lots of options now for crypto backed debit/credit cards. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law
washedup 5y ago
What about gold? It's been around for thousands of years first as a medium of exchange and today as store-of-value, but is never used for transactions today. That's doesnt make it "bad money", it just makes it different than a currency.
doublejay1999 5y ago
so what bitcoin (and of course other crypto) is, is complex and ultimately subjective : it's different things to different people, just like money. It does some things money can do & does some things that money cannot. FIAT money is the same, It does some s bitcoin can't but cannot do some things bitcoin can. instead of advancing a concrete definition of crypto - which as i said is a subjective argument - i'd encourage you to look at what money, monetarism & fiat really are. It's equally subjective, and arguably a more difficult concept that crypto. At the moment, traditional cash can be spent much more freely than crypto, which is one of things limiting it's utility as a currency. But similarly, the lack of an immutable ledger, a practically infinite(or a least unknown) supply, and risk of physical counterfeits limits Cash as store of value. ....right now...crypto is something. Even if it's yet to be fully realised. It's mainstream, at least as an investible asset and It has some utility as currency, albeit limited. For people in developed countries, with established currencies backed by a military force, either directly of indirectly, it will seem quite absurd that crypto could/should replace cash. For people in unstable regimes, countries who've experienced hyperinflation, it's a massively attractive proposition.