4 ms·

You're supposed to clean under the foreskin and regularly wash male genitalia, unlike vaginas - which are self-cleaning and should never be soaped or washed. Ma

You're supposed to clean under the foreskin and regularly wash male genitalia, unlike vaginas - which are self-cleaning and should never be soaped or washed. Many men in less-developed places such as poorer countries in Africa aren't taught that. The studies that show STD rates being lowered with circumcision almost all take place in places like those, where along with poor genital hygiene, contraception (such as condoms) are used much less frequently and proper sex ed is almost never taught. The reality is that the rates of STD transmission aren't higher for uncircumcised penises as long as proper genital hygiene is maintained.

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willnz 5y ago
But why would human male genitalia be so different from other male animals in the regard? I'm pretty sure soapy water isn't part of the cleaning regime other animals have...
- admax88q 5y ago
  Are you sure it's different? Or do we just have a much lower tolerance for spreading disease than most animals.
- _Microft 5y ago
  Proper care for animals increases their life expectancy a lot as well. The difference in life expectancy between (domestic) cats being cared for by humans and living in the wild is huge: 15-20 years vs. 1.5-4.2 years. German source, because English WP lacks this information - just use a translation tool of your choice: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauskatze#Lebenserwartung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauskatze#Lebenserwartung
  - nomel 5y ago
    Yet cats are self cleaning in both cases, with the SPCA saying that cats should not usually be bathed [1]. This longevity is most likely related to diet, and not being eaten by predators. [1] https://www.ccspca.com/blog-spca/education/bathing-a-cat/ https://www.ccspca.com/blog-spca/education/bathing-a-cat/
    - _Microft 5y ago
      This was not meant to be a direct reply to the cleaning method. I meant to give an example that showed that the life span of animals can easily be extended to multiple times of it just by not doing things as nature does them.
- trainsplanes 5y ago
  And wild animals die of small infections and deal with parasites all the time. Success is just being able to live long enough to reproduce. Being able to clean ourselves improved our health a lot.
ars 5y ago
> as long as The number of things that will reduce STD rates "as long as" you do them is very very high. I'm sure I don't need to provide you with a list. The reality is that people don't do all of them. Despite the claims of some activists, circumcision has no negative consequences, so if it helps, then it helps. There's this weird messaging I see sometimes, where people are against something that can help because "you could do this other thing (but no one is)".
- jagger27 5y ago
  > Despite the claims of some activists, circumcision has no negative consequences [citation needed]
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  >"Despite the claims of some activists, circumcision has no negative consequences, so if it helps, then it helps." It's really telling that studies in non-circumcising cultures show that the foreskin has a purpose and that removing it has an actual effect on the body. They do not recommend it as a routine practice, despite the claimed benefits. And, those benefits themselves are also questioned from an efficacy standpoint. But studies done in circumcising cultures confidently declare that such a densely innervated piece of tissue made to protect a mucous membrane does nothing of value, removing it has no negative consequences, and that its removal has no negative impact whatsoever on sexual function. These two schools of thought are mutually exclusive.
  - threatofrain 5y ago
    Is there any mainstream American medical institution that still recommends routine infant circumcision?
vagrantJin 5y ago
> poorer countries in Africa aren't taught that. Well, this is not the type of thing I'd expect to find on HN. So in Africa, STDs are linked to lack of hygiene and more specifically dick cheese? Because it isn't taught correct?
- deleted 5y ago
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willnz 5y ago

But why would human male genitalia be so different from other male animals in the regard? I'm pretty sure soapy water isn't part of the cleaning regime other animals have...

admax88q 5y ago
Are you sure it's different? Or do we just have a much lower tolerance for spreading disease than most animals.
_Microft 5y ago
Proper care for animals increases their life expectancy a lot as well. The difference in life expectancy between (domestic) cats being cared for by humans and living in the wild is huge: 15-20 years vs. 1.5-4.2 years. German source, because English WP lacks this information - just use a translation tool of your choice: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauskatze#Lebenserwartung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauskatze#Lebenserwartung
- nomel 5y ago
  Yet cats are self cleaning in both cases, with the SPCA saying that cats should not usually be bathed [1]. This longevity is most likely related to diet, and not being eaten by predators. [1] https://www.ccspca.com/blog-spca/education/bathing-a-cat/ https://www.ccspca.com/blog-spca/education/bathing-a-cat/
  - _Microft 5y ago
    This was not meant to be a direct reply to the cleaning method. I meant to give an example that showed that the life span of animals can easily be extended to multiple times of it just by not doing things as nature does them.
trainsplanes 5y ago
And wild animals die of small infections and deal with parasites all the time. Success is just being able to live long enough to reproduce. Being able to clean ourselves improved our health a lot.

ars 5y ago

> as long as The number of things that will reduce STD rates "as long as" you do them is very very high. I'm sure I don't need to provide you with a list. The reality is that people don't do all of them. Despite the claims of some activists, circumcision has no negative consequences, so if it helps, then it helps. There's this weird messaging I see sometimes, where people are against something that can help because "you could do this other thing (but no one is)".

jagger27 5y ago
> Despite the claims of some activists, circumcision has no negative consequences [citation needed]
BitwiseFool 5y ago
>"Despite the claims of some activists, circumcision has no negative consequences, so if it helps, then it helps." It's really telling that studies in non-circumcising cultures show that the foreskin has a purpose and that removing it has an actual effect on the body. They do not recommend it as a routine practice, despite the claimed benefits. And, those benefits themselves are also questioned from an efficacy standpoint. But studies done in circumcising cultures confidently declare that such a densely innervated piece of tissue made to protect a mucous membrane does nothing of value, removing it has no negative consequences, and that its removal has no negative impact whatsoever on sexual function. These two schools of thought are mutually exclusive.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  Is there any mainstream American medical institution that still recommends routine infant circumcision?

vagrantJin 5y ago

> poorer countries in Africa aren't taught that. Well, this is not the type of thing I'd expect to find on HN. So in Africa, STDs are linked to lack of hygiene and more specifically dick cheese? Because it isn't taught correct?

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