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I don't see how calling out the demographics of the designers making the decisions has anything to do with the larger implications of societal impact. There are

I don't see how calling out the demographics of the designers making the decisions has anything to do with the larger implications of societal impact. There are terrible things done by people of every demographic to millions of people, as well as great things. It's also less and less true (tho probably more so in 2013 when this was created), yet the problems still exist because the incentives are there (the real issue).

cratermoon 5y ago
Why shouldn't that be part of the discussion? The actions of a few people with a certain common worldview having an impact on billions of peoples and the effects of that worldview ought to be examined, what's the objection to that? > the problems still exist because the incentives are there Yes, and who determines the incentives and provides the rewards?
- azinman2 5y ago
  It’s worthwhile to note the impact that few people have, but I don’t see how calling out demographics has any impact on YouTube video recommendations as a design pattern. Are we to believe a team of elderly Pacific Islander females wouldn’t make such choices, when the high level business goal is to retain people’s attention for as long as possible? The incentives and rewards are provided by the market in the form of capital returns on clicks and viewership… globally across all demographics.
  - cratermoon 5y ago
    > Are we to believe a team of elderly Pacific Islander females wouldn’t make such choices, when the high level business goal is to retain people’s attention for as long as possible? The business goals were defined by the people in question. Your hypothetical group of Polynesian women might not even entertain that goal. The people who started Twitter, Facebook, Google, and Amazon all had a common worldview which informed the goals they set. The attention economy model is just an expression of that. > The incentives and rewards are provided by the market in the form of capital returns on clicks and viewership… globally across all demographics. That particular formulation is part of the neoliberal economic consensus. It has nothing to do with how a group of people with no particular fealty to that world view would act.
dang 5y ago
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

cratermoon 5y ago

Why shouldn't that be part of the discussion? The actions of a few people with a certain common worldview having an impact on billions of peoples and the effects of that worldview ought to be examined, what's the objection to that? > the problems still exist because the incentives are there Yes, and who determines the incentives and provides the rewards?

azinman2 5y ago
It’s worthwhile to note the impact that few people have, but I don’t see how calling out demographics has any impact on YouTube video recommendations as a design pattern. Are we to believe a team of elderly Pacific Islander females wouldn’t make such choices, when the high level business goal is to retain people’s attention for as long as possible? The incentives and rewards are provided by the market in the form of capital returns on clicks and viewership… globally across all demographics.
- cratermoon 5y ago
  > Are we to believe a team of elderly Pacific Islander females wouldn’t make such choices, when the high level business goal is to retain people’s attention for as long as possible? The business goals were defined by the people in question. Your hypothetical group of Polynesian women might not even entertain that goal. The people who started Twitter, Facebook, Google, and Amazon all had a common worldview which informed the goals they set. The attention economy model is just an expression of that. > The incentives and rewards are provided by the market in the form of capital returns on clicks and viewership… globally across all demographics. That particular formulation is part of the neoliberal economic consensus. It has nothing to do with how a group of people with no particular fealty to that world view would act.

dang 5y ago

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html