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They will be forced to. That’s what’s different with iCloud relay - Apple’s weight to force changes upstream. Either Etsy changes their policy now during the

They will be forced to. That’s what’s different with iCloud relay - Apple’s weight to force changes upstream. Either Etsy changes their policy now during the beta (my guess is they will), or they change it in a panic in November when iPhones can no longer access the site to buy anything. (No-one is going to switch off private relay to convenience a single website).

marcinzm 5y ago
>(No-one is going to switch off private relay to convenience a single website) If you're a seller and a decent chunk of your income comes from Etsy you definitely would. They already do that with avoiding VPNs to not get suspended.
- novok 5y ago
  Etsy does something similar with vpns where they serve a blank page if you try to access it. They don’t even throw up an error message. That prevents buyers from buying also. Etsy will adapt, quickly.
- barkerja 5y ago
  How many average Etsy users do you think would know that iCloud Private Relay is the cause of their issues?
  - danudey 5y ago
    They will google it and find a forum result somewhere that says "If you have iCloud, try turning off Private Relay. This solved the problem for me!" followed by a dozen other people saying 'Thanks so much, this fixed it for me too!" At least, it would if their Etsy accounts weren't getting locked until they can contact support. That said, the Etsy app won't be subject to Private Relay, so if the functionality is there then a lot of users won't have to worry about it as much.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      > That said, the Etsy app won't be subject to Private Relay Why? As far as I know it will apply to apps as well.
      - danudey 5y ago
        Per the WWDC talk on it: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/ > In iOS 15 and macOS 12, Private Relay will apply to all web browsing in Safari, all DNS name resolution queries, and a small subset of traffic from apps. > Specifically, this will include all insecure HTTP traffic, such as TCP port 80. This implies that app traffic won't apply to HTTPS traffic, which supports my assertion, but then later in the video: > Not all networking done by your app occurs over the public internet, so there are several categories of traffic that are not affected by Private Relay. > Any connections your app makes over the local network or to private domain names will be unaffected. > Similarly, if your app provides a network extension to add VPN or app-proxying capabilities, your extension won't use Private Relay and neither will app traffic that uses your extension. > Traffic that uses a proxy is also exempt. So this says that HTTPS traffic will be included, which disproves my assertion, and seems more likely to be true.
        user-the-name 5y ago
        Yeah, they are not being very clear, which is nothing new for Apple. But usually, you get closest to the truth if you look at what their intent is, and in this case, the intent is to limit the ability to track users, and there is no reason they would make a distinction between web users and app users there.
    - katbyte 5y ago
      You may be putting too much faith in non technical people googling their way to a solution you or I would easily find..
    - breakfastduck 5y ago
      You would, sure. 99.9% of etsy userbase would not.
fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago
Apple’s got their own authentication service now. Maybe Etsy will relax their IP restrictions for customers using that.
vinay_ys 5y ago
More likely to happen: Apple's IP addresses get allowlisted.
- knodi 5y ago
  There is no Apple's IP address with Private Relay. Apple is using 3rd part companies as its exit nodes to avoid this "whitelist apple ip addresses" concern.
  - Boerworz 5y ago
    The "Get ready for iCloud Private Relay" session[1] from this year's WWDC makes it seem like there will be a publicly available list of IP addresses used by Private Relay: Private Relay guarantees that users can't use the system to pretend to be from a different region, so you can continue to enforce region-based access restrictions. Details about the proxy IP addresses will be available as an article associated with this session. Though I haven't been able to find the aforementioned article. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/
    - banana_giraffe 5y ago
      Here's the article: https://developer.apple.com/support/prepare-your-network-for-icloud-private-relay https://developer.apple.com/support/prepare-your-network-for... And their IPs, as mentioned in that article: https://mask-api.icloud.com/egress-ip-ranges.csv https://mask-api.icloud.com/egress-ip-ranges.csv Seems to be mostly Fastly IP addresses right now, but I'm sure that'll change over time.
      - alam2000 5y ago
        I'm running the list using IP2Location and it is showing 3 CDNs now. (a) Fastly (b) CloudFlare (c) Akamai
- mike_hearn 5y ago
  I used to work on anti-hijacking "risk based analysis" at Google. Here's what's even more likely to happen: Apple's IP addresses get marked as VPN/Tor ranges and treated exactly the same way as other such ranges. This may trigger e.g. requirements to use two factor authentication on an account if you wish to log in from such ranges.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

marcinzm 5y ago

>(No-one is going to switch off private relay to convenience a single website) If you're a seller and a decent chunk of your income comes from Etsy you definitely would. They already do that with avoiding VPNs to not get suspended.

novok 5y ago
Etsy does something similar with vpns where they serve a blank page if you try to access it. They don’t even throw up an error message. That prevents buyers from buying also. Etsy will adapt, quickly.
barkerja 5y ago
How many average Etsy users do you think would know that iCloud Private Relay is the cause of their issues?
- danudey 5y ago
  They will google it and find a forum result somewhere that says "If you have iCloud, try turning off Private Relay. This solved the problem for me!" followed by a dozen other people saying 'Thanks so much, this fixed it for me too!" At least, it would if their Etsy accounts weren't getting locked until they can contact support. That said, the Etsy app won't be subject to Private Relay, so if the functionality is there then a lot of users won't have to worry about it as much.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    > That said, the Etsy app won't be subject to Private Relay Why? As far as I know it will apply to apps as well.
    - danudey 5y ago
      Per the WWDC talk on it: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/ > In iOS 15 and macOS 12, Private Relay will apply to all web browsing in Safari, all DNS name resolution queries, and a small subset of traffic from apps. > Specifically, this will include all insecure HTTP traffic, such as TCP port 80. This implies that app traffic won't apply to HTTPS traffic, which supports my assertion, but then later in the video: > Not all networking done by your app occurs over the public internet, so there are several categories of traffic that are not affected by Private Relay. > Any connections your app makes over the local network or to private domain names will be unaffected. > Similarly, if your app provides a network extension to add VPN or app-proxying capabilities, your extension won't use Private Relay and neither will app traffic that uses your extension. > Traffic that uses a proxy is also exempt. So this says that HTTPS traffic will be included, which disproves my assertion, and seems more likely to be true.
      - user-the-name 5y ago
        Yeah, they are not being very clear, which is nothing new for Apple. But usually, you get closest to the truth if you look at what their intent is, and in this case, the intent is to limit the ability to track users, and there is no reason they would make a distinction between web users and app users there.
  - katbyte 5y ago
    You may be putting too much faith in non technical people googling their way to a solution you or I would easily find..
  - breakfastduck 5y ago
    You would, sure. 99.9% of etsy userbase would not.

fshbbdssbbgdd 5y ago

Apple’s got their own authentication service now. Maybe Etsy will relax their IP restrictions for customers using that.

vinay_ys 5y ago

More likely to happen: Apple's IP addresses get allowlisted.

knodi 5y ago
There is no Apple's IP address with Private Relay. Apple is using 3rd part companies as its exit nodes to avoid this "whitelist apple ip addresses" concern.
- Boerworz 5y ago
  The "Get ready for iCloud Private Relay" session[1] from this year's WWDC makes it seem like there will be a publicly available list of IP addresses used by Private Relay: Private Relay guarantees that users can't use the system to pretend to be from a different region, so you can continue to enforce region-based access restrictions. Details about the proxy IP addresses will be available as an article associated with this session. Though I haven't been able to find the aforementioned article. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/
  - banana_giraffe 5y ago
    Here's the article: https://developer.apple.com/support/prepare-your-network-for-icloud-private-relay https://developer.apple.com/support/prepare-your-network-for... And their IPs, as mentioned in that article: https://mask-api.icloud.com/egress-ip-ranges.csv https://mask-api.icloud.com/egress-ip-ranges.csv Seems to be mostly Fastly IP addresses right now, but I'm sure that'll change over time.
    - alam2000 5y ago
      I'm running the list using IP2Location and it is showing 3 CDNs now. (a) Fastly (b) CloudFlare (c) Akamai
mike_hearn 5y ago
I used to work on anti-hijacking "risk based analysis" at Google. Here's what's even more likely to happen: Apple's IP addresses get marked as VPN/Tor ranges and treated exactly the same way as other such ranges. This may trigger e.g. requirements to use two factor authentication on an account if you wish to log in from such ranges.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]