6 ms·

Umm, is Uber profitable? Amazon is (and even in the past, was basically at a rounding error to zero on margin, since they were plowing so much money into R&D),

Umm, is Uber profitable? Amazon is (and even in the past, was basically at a rounding error to zero on margin, since they were plowing so much money into R&D), and Tesla has had the past couple quarters be profitable (though amusingly more on bets on Bitcoin than actual car sales), both essentially creating a new market, and while not actually undercutting the competition. But I thought Uber was 'expecting' to be profitable by the end of the year? While basically making it so cab companies have a hard time competing, since they, you know, obey the rules (albeit ones they created to, themselves, maintain a monopoly), and have to turn a profit.

bee_rider 5y ago
You misunderstand. Uber plans to be profitable within a year... but didn't say which year they'll be profitable within.
nickik 5y ago
> Tesla has had the past couple quarters be profitable They have been profitable for almost 1.5 years. > (though amusingly more on bets on Bitcoin than actual car sales) That is simply false.
- lostcolony 5y ago
  Yeah, I wasn't commenting on how long Tesla has been profitable, just that currently they are. But it's been due to emission offsets and bitcoin. And given they don't make a profit on their cars...they've made more from bitcoin than on car sales. https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36266393/tesla-made-more-money-selling-credits-and-bitcoin-than-cars/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36266393/tesla-mad... https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-loses-money-on-every-single-car-heres-where-the-profit-hides/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-loses-money-on-every-sing...
  - nickik 5y ago
    Why are people so obsessed with picking some parts Tesla revenue and claim that what makes it profitable. What makes them profitable is all the ways that make revenue and all the ways they spend money. Bitcoin was relevant for 1 Quarter. And trading in fuel credits has been a thing in the automotive industry for decades and are simply a normal part of the business. You might as well point to specific spending and say 'they are only not more profitable because of XY'. They have a ~20% unit margin excluding credits so clearly they are making a massive amount of money selling cars. If they weren't selling credits they would likely spend differently and still show moderate profitability. Their goal is not maximum profitability but maximum growth while showing consistent profitability.
    - maverick-iceman 5y ago
      > Why are people so obsessed with picking some parts Tesla revenue Because people (for the most part) aren't fools, especially on here. People see a 600B dollar company and expect it to feel its presence in their lives each and every day. They expect to use the thing, or their employer to use the thing or their supplier to use the thing on a daily basis like it happens with Exxon, Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Netflix, Salesforce, Oracle, IBM... They all earned their significance by touching so many lives and making people lives a tad better and less complicated for their users, and the rise to riches of their founders has happened in lockstep or almost lockstep with the changes and the improvement they were making in people's lives. With Tesla you have a 600B company and Porsches (which are a rarity on their own) are still more common then them on our roads. People are suspicious about unjustifed enrichment, always been, always will be. "What have you done for me to deserve that amount of money? What have you done for society to deserve that amount of money?" Such question will always come up. Musk has been able to answer to such question up to now with: 1) "Give me time!" and 2) "Wait, neat things are a-comin" as well as 3) "Population wide morale boost given by the prospect of amazing future is the real product" People are more and more asking questions though, and he keeps answering with postponements and future deadlines, while Teslas are still less common than Porsches
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Tesla delivers twice as many cars as Porsche. https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-q4-2020-vehicle-production-deliveries https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-q4-2020-vehicle-pro... https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/annual-sustainability-report-2020.html https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/annual-sustainabilit... And Porsche is stagnant compared to Tesla: https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-v... https://www.statista.com/statistics/263854/sales-development-of-porsche-worldwide-since-1995/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/263854/sales-development... >With Tesla you have a 600B company and Porsches (which are a rarity on their own) are still more common then them on our roads. I have seen far more Teslas than Porsches up and down the west coast.

bee_rider 5y ago

You misunderstand. Uber plans to be profitable within a year... but didn't say which year they'll be profitable within.

nickik 5y ago

> Tesla has had the past couple quarters be profitable They have been profitable for almost 1.5 years. > (though amusingly more on bets on Bitcoin than actual car sales) That is simply false.

lostcolony 5y ago
Yeah, I wasn't commenting on how long Tesla has been profitable, just that currently they are. But it's been due to emission offsets and bitcoin. And given they don't make a profit on their cars...they've made more from bitcoin than on car sales. https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36266393/tesla-made-more-money-selling-credits-and-bitcoin-than-cars/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36266393/tesla-mad... https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-loses-money-on-every-single-car-heres-where-the-profit-hides/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-loses-money-on-every-sing...
- nickik 5y ago
  Why are people so obsessed with picking some parts Tesla revenue and claim that what makes it profitable. What makes them profitable is all the ways that make revenue and all the ways they spend money. Bitcoin was relevant for 1 Quarter. And trading in fuel credits has been a thing in the automotive industry for decades and are simply a normal part of the business. You might as well point to specific spending and say 'they are only not more profitable because of XY'. They have a ~20% unit margin excluding credits so clearly they are making a massive amount of money selling cars. If they weren't selling credits they would likely spend differently and still show moderate profitability. Their goal is not maximum profitability but maximum growth while showing consistent profitability.
  - maverick-iceman 5y ago
    > Why are people so obsessed with picking some parts Tesla revenue Because people (for the most part) aren't fools, especially on here. People see a 600B dollar company and expect it to feel its presence in their lives each and every day. They expect to use the thing, or their employer to use the thing or their supplier to use the thing on a daily basis like it happens with Exxon, Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Netflix, Salesforce, Oracle, IBM... They all earned their significance by touching so many lives and making people lives a tad better and less complicated for their users, and the rise to riches of their founders has happened in lockstep or almost lockstep with the changes and the improvement they were making in people's lives. With Tesla you have a 600B company and Porsches (which are a rarity on their own) are still more common then them on our roads. People are suspicious about unjustifed enrichment, always been, always will be. "What have you done for me to deserve that amount of money? What have you done for society to deserve that amount of money?" Such question will always come up. Musk has been able to answer to such question up to now with: 1) "Give me time!" and 2) "Wait, neat things are a-comin" as well as 3) "Population wide morale boost given by the prospect of amazing future is the real product" People are more and more asking questions though, and he keeps answering with postponements and future deadlines, while Teslas are still less common than Porsches
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Tesla delivers twice as many cars as Porsche. https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-q4-2020-vehicle-production-deliveries https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-q4-2020-vehicle-pro... https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/annual-sustainability-report-2020.html https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/annual-sustainabilit... And Porsche is stagnant compared to Tesla: https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-v... https://www.statista.com/statistics/263854/sales-development-of-porsche-worldwide-since-1995/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/263854/sales-development... >With Tesla you have a 600B company and Porsches (which are a rarity on their own) are still more common then them on our roads. I have seen far more Teslas than Porsches up and down the west coast.