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> Sure, now lets try to apply that in practice with a kid angry at you for years. That's called "being a parent" in my circle? I have a toddler that loves to t

> Sure, now lets try to apply that in practice with a kid angry at you for years. That's called "being a parent" in my circle? I have a toddler that loves to throw the "you're not my friend!" at me when I cut off the TV and tell her it is time for dinner. I never had a cell-phone until 17, despite all my friends having had theirs as early as the middle school years. Never mattered much in my case. I didn't have an X-Box 360 with Halo 2 and online gaming despite many of my peers having had that. Not sure why this is being seen as a "must have."

chrisseaton 5y ago
These days a cell phone is often pretty much required to reasonably access some essential services.
- ericd 5y ago
  For a kid? Such as?
  - watwut 5y ago
    Friends.
    - weimerica 5y ago
      Oddly, my children have no such issue.
      - jenkstom 5y ago
        The whole point here is that parents should be able to guide their children into becoming social citizens in today's world - which means online. We're here to discuss parental agency and online privacy for children. We aren't here to discuss how great your parenting skills are. My ex has a narcissistic personality disorder and ... well. Any time somebody brags about how great a parent they are - especially when it's in the context of controlling children - I automatically think they aren't a great parent. That's probably just me and you probably are a really great parent, but I promise you I'm not the only one here thinking it.
      - xeromal 5y ago
        That's tough to guess. Who knows if they're being left out of some events.
    - ericd 5y ago
      Well, they said “services”, so I was curious what they meant there, since it sounded like something actually required, like to get signed up for school or something. I guess social media services might be what they were talking about, though.
scottLobster 5y ago
This may shock you, but things have changed significantly in the past 20 years. Technology is even more necessary for social activity than when we were young. And I remember being the kid at the birthday parties that couldn't play video games, and couldn't participate in conversation at the lunch table because video games were most of what my friends talked about. Made me a permanent second-class citizen in my social group, which sucked. Got to the point where I literally did research on the games (reading strategy guides and such) just to have something to talk about. If the group plays poker, and you aren't allowed because of a moral stance on gambling, that's going to hurt your social opportunities quite substantially. Also don't make the classic mistake of assuming your kids have all the same variables you did, or can approach the same variables the same way. You have to adapt your experiences to their environment and their personality/needs, often with different outcomes than what you experienced. Most parents are too cowardly for that and mess up their kids with strict enforcement of obsolete rules or letting them run wild with too little structure/guidance.
- weimerica 5y ago
  > Technology is even more necessary for social activity than when we were young. Oddly, my own children do not have that same issue. In a world of billions, there are no universal claims like this.
  - OldTimeCoffee 5y ago
    Parent here, have you asked them if not having a phone has been a problem? Or are you just assuming it isn't because it hasn't been a problem with them for you.
  - Cipater 5y ago
    How can you be so sure that they're not being affected socially? Because they don't tell you about it?
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    just curious, how old are you children? you mentioned having a toddler further up. it makes sense that most social activities are planned by the parents anyway at that age. I remember things starting to change in middle school. kids started making same-day plans for after school and shooting their parents a quick text to say where they were going. I tried using the school's phone a few times when I was invited, but there wasn't always time to visit the office between classes. that was pretty clunky to do one or more times per week, and I knew I would be in big trouble if I wasn't there when my dad came to pick me up. so I just had to accept that I wouldn't be participating in most of those spontaneous hangouts until I got a phone. like you said, everyone is different. some kids are charismatic enough that everyone else will work around whatever inconveniences they bring. others are not. I knew my parents had a very firm stance on stuff like phones, so I didn't bother complaining about it much.
skeeter2020 5y ago
In my 13-yr-olds class only 2 people don't have iPhones. Don't under-estimate the social impact of being excluded from that otherwise class-wide group chat. If you're in the toddler stage you control almost every variable. The game changes once they hit > 8.
- swiley 5y ago
  You may not be aware but an iPhone isn't required to participate in group chats: MMS and XMPP still exist, there are even bridges between them.

chrisseaton 5y ago

These days a cell phone is often pretty much required to reasonably access some essential services.

ericd 5y ago
For a kid? Such as?
- watwut 5y ago
  Friends.
  - weimerica 5y ago
    Oddly, my children have no such issue.
    - jenkstom 5y ago
      The whole point here is that parents should be able to guide their children into becoming social citizens in today's world - which means online. We're here to discuss parental agency and online privacy for children. We aren't here to discuss how great your parenting skills are. My ex has a narcissistic personality disorder and ... well. Any time somebody brags about how great a parent they are - especially when it's in the context of controlling children - I automatically think they aren't a great parent. That's probably just me and you probably are a really great parent, but I promise you I'm not the only one here thinking it.
    - xeromal 5y ago
      That's tough to guess. Who knows if they're being left out of some events.
  - ericd 5y ago
    Well, they said “services”, so I was curious what they meant there, since it sounded like something actually required, like to get signed up for school or something. I guess social media services might be what they were talking about, though.

scottLobster 5y ago

This may shock you, but things have changed significantly in the past 20 years. Technology is even more necessary for social activity than when we were young. And I remember being the kid at the birthday parties that couldn't play video games, and couldn't participate in conversation at the lunch table because video games were most of what my friends talked about. Made me a permanent second-class citizen in my social group, which sucked. Got to the point where I literally did research on the games (reading strategy guides and such) just to have something to talk about. If the group plays poker, and you aren't allowed because of a moral stance on gambling, that's going to hurt your social opportunities quite substantially. Also don't make the classic mistake of assuming your kids have all the same variables you did, or can approach the same variables the same way. You have to adapt your experiences to their environment and their personality/needs, often with different outcomes than what you experienced. Most parents are too cowardly for that and mess up their kids with strict enforcement of obsolete rules or letting them run wild with too little structure/guidance.

weimerica 5y ago
> Technology is even more necessary for social activity than when we were young. Oddly, my own children do not have that same issue. In a world of billions, there are no universal claims like this.
- OldTimeCoffee 5y ago
  Parent here, have you asked them if not having a phone has been a problem? Or are you just assuming it isn't because it hasn't been a problem with them for you.
- Cipater 5y ago
  How can you be so sure that they're not being affected socially? Because they don't tell you about it?
- leetcrew 5y ago
  just curious, how old are you children? you mentioned having a toddler further up. it makes sense that most social activities are planned by the parents anyway at that age. I remember things starting to change in middle school. kids started making same-day plans for after school and shooting their parents a quick text to say where they were going. I tried using the school's phone a few times when I was invited, but there wasn't always time to visit the office between classes. that was pretty clunky to do one or more times per week, and I knew I would be in big trouble if I wasn't there when my dad came to pick me up. so I just had to accept that I wouldn't be participating in most of those spontaneous hangouts until I got a phone. like you said, everyone is different. some kids are charismatic enough that everyone else will work around whatever inconveniences they bring. others are not. I knew my parents had a very firm stance on stuff like phones, so I didn't bother complaining about it much.

skeeter2020 5y ago

In my 13-yr-olds class only 2 people don't have iPhones. Don't under-estimate the social impact of being excluded from that otherwise class-wide group chat. If you're in the toddler stage you control almost every variable. The game changes once they hit > 8.

swiley 5y ago
You may not be aware but an iPhone isn't required to participate in group chats: MMS and XMPP still exist, there are even bridges between them.