3 ms·

How, exactly, is the average person supposed to do them, then? It isn't like most countries let you walk into a shop and buy them. Realistically, it is the only

How, exactly, is the average person supposed to do them, then? It isn't like most countries let you walk into a shop and buy them. Realistically, it is the only way many people will ever get to do them legally. And realistically, if you are wanting to do psychedelics, you might not even find the same sort (I've generally found more opportunities to do LSD than truffles or mushrooms, for example). Your words are kind of like telling young folks not to go and buy alcohol without knowing how to deal with it. The only way to learn is to take them.

pmoriarty 5y ago
"It isn't like most countries let you walk into a shop and buy them." No. But you can walk in to the forest and pick them. You really do need to identify them properly, though, and not just pick random mushrooms. For help in doing that I can highly recommend Alan Rockefeller's excellent videos on psilocybin mushroom identification: [1] [2] Another option is getting mushroom spores (which are legal in most states in the US) and growing them yourself.[3][4] There are also various other legal psychedelics, like morning glory seeds[5], hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, and salvia divinorum[6]. Some sorts of breathwork (like holotropic breathing) is actually effective at inducing altered states of consciousness comparable for some people to psychedelics. It's not clear how safe such breathwork is long-term, as not enough serious studies of it has been done, but at least breathing is perfectly legal everywhere.. last I checked. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pInqVRRva7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pInqVRRva7M [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcL-7u80kjs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcL-7u80kjs [3] - https://old.reddit.com/r/unclebens/ https://old.reddit.com/r/unclebens/ [4] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0gJTeTT-pE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0gJTeTT-pE [5] - https://erowid.org/plants/morning_glory/morning_glory.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/morning_glory/morning_glory.shtml [6] - https://erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  "No. But you can walk in to the forest and pick them." If you live by such forests. I happen to now (and do), but I haven't always had such a luxury. And again, lots of folks don't have the luxury of growing. Just because there are other "legal" options doesn't mean much: These are going to act differently than what you get in Amsterdam. I have no doubt that breathwork can make altered states, but I very highly doubt it is comparable to drugs. And again, this isn't really going to prepare you for, say, truffles in Amsterdam. If you don't like breathwork, you can just stop and do something else. If you don't like where you are at on drugs, you just have to wait.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "I have no doubt that breathwork can make altered states, but I very highly doubt it is comparable to drugs." I was super skeptical myself.. so much so that even though I'd heard of holotropic breathwork at least a couple of decades ago I didn't bother to try it because it just sounded like complete bullshit. But I did eventually try it, about a year ago, and I was amazed that it did in fact induce a state that was comparable to at least a low dose of psychedelics. Some people have reported even more powerful effects. I aborted my self-experimentation out of concern that it might cause long-term health effects (as, paradoxically, hyperventilation -- which is what holotorpic breathwork mostly consists of -- can cause oxygen deprivation to the brain) but at least now, one year later, I haven't experienced any adverse health effects that I can detect, so might give it another try. The really long-term effects (like 10 or 20 years later) are still unknown, though, as there just haven't been any serious long-term studies of it. Another interesting possibility (which is again, mostly unstudied by science yet) is combining breathwork with other means of inducing altered states of consciousness.
swashboon 5y ago
Just like any other even remotely dangerous activity, having someone trusted with experience is the best way. Otherwise start very low and wade in. I would ABSOLUTELY tell young folks to not just go buy alcohol without knowing somewhat how to deal with it. Alcohol at least has enough cultural guard rails that a kid will generally know that drinking an entire liter is a bad idea.

pmoriarty 5y ago

"It isn't like most countries let you walk into a shop and buy them." No. But you can walk in to the forest and pick them. You really do need to identify them properly, though, and not just pick random mushrooms. For help in doing that I can highly recommend Alan Rockefeller's excellent videos on psilocybin mushroom identification: [1] [2] Another option is getting mushroom spores (which are legal in most states in the US) and growing them yourself.[3][4] There are also various other legal psychedelics, like morning glory seeds[5], hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, and salvia divinorum[6]. Some sorts of breathwork (like holotropic breathing) is actually effective at inducing altered states of consciousness comparable for some people to psychedelics. It's not clear how safe such breathwork is long-term, as not enough serious studies of it has been done, but at least breathing is perfectly legal everywhere.. last I checked. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pInqVRRva7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pInqVRRva7M [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcL-7u80kjs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcL-7u80kjs [3] - https://old.reddit.com/r/unclebens/ https://old.reddit.com/r/unclebens/ [4] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0gJTeTT-pE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0gJTeTT-pE [5] - https://erowid.org/plants/morning_glory/morning_glory.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/morning_glory/morning_glory.shtml [6] - https://erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml https://erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
"No. But you can walk in to the forest and pick them." If you live by such forests. I happen to now (and do), but I haven't always had such a luxury. And again, lots of folks don't have the luxury of growing. Just because there are other "legal" options doesn't mean much: These are going to act differently than what you get in Amsterdam. I have no doubt that breathwork can make altered states, but I very highly doubt it is comparable to drugs. And again, this isn't really going to prepare you for, say, truffles in Amsterdam. If you don't like breathwork, you can just stop and do something else. If you don't like where you are at on drugs, you just have to wait.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "I have no doubt that breathwork can make altered states, but I very highly doubt it is comparable to drugs." I was super skeptical myself.. so much so that even though I'd heard of holotropic breathwork at least a couple of decades ago I didn't bother to try it because it just sounded like complete bullshit. But I did eventually try it, about a year ago, and I was amazed that it did in fact induce a state that was comparable to at least a low dose of psychedelics. Some people have reported even more powerful effects. I aborted my self-experimentation out of concern that it might cause long-term health effects (as, paradoxically, hyperventilation -- which is what holotorpic breathwork mostly consists of -- can cause oxygen deprivation to the brain) but at least now, one year later, I haven't experienced any adverse health effects that I can detect, so might give it another try. The really long-term effects (like 10 or 20 years later) are still unknown, though, as there just haven't been any serious long-term studies of it. Another interesting possibility (which is again, mostly unstudied by science yet) is combining breathwork with other means of inducing altered states of consciousness.

swashboon 5y ago

Just like any other even remotely dangerous activity, having someone trusted with experience is the best way. Otherwise start very low and wade in. I would ABSOLUTELY tell young folks to not just go buy alcohol without knowing somewhat how to deal with it. Alcohol at least has enough cultural guard rails that a kid will generally know that drinking an entire liter is a bad idea.