6 ms·

You can't address societal problems before you address your own problems. And who is "we"? You should always ask this question when you see the word. Most peo

You can't address societal problems before you address your own problems. And who is "we"? You should always ask this question when you see the word. Most people use it incorrectly because they falsely assume it includes people who would prefer to not be included in their statement.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
> You can't address societal problems before you address your own problems. To me this just sounds like more of the same stuff our societies keep pushing: that all the problems are ones of individual responsibility, not systemic flaws. You're depressed because there's something wrong with you, not the world you live in, so fix yourself instead of trying to make the world better. > And who is "we"? I guess any society where >10% of the population, and growing, is on an antidepressant.
- haram_masala 5y ago
  Thanks for bringing some sanity and perspective to this discussion. Just like we judge some ancient civilizations for human sacrifice as a way of securing prosperity (or whatever), someday people will look back on our use of psychiatric drugs with the same amazement and revulsion.
  - sparkie 5y ago
    You're still at it. Who is "we"? What is "our"s? Stop pretending to speak for everyone else.
- sparkie 5y ago
  > To me this just sounds like more of the same stuff our societies keep pushing: that all the problems are ones of individual responsibility, not systemic flaws. You're depressed because there's something wrong with you, not the world you live in, so fix yourself instead of trying to make the world better. You've misinterpreted what I meant. I'm not only applying this to depressed people, but to everybody. In order to address problems, you need to start with yourself, by first understanding the problems and their causes. You can't address the problems blind. Many people's idea of "make the world better," at some point, involves having the State do something more than it was previously doing. They're shooting themselves in the foot, because the problem is the State itself. You can't fix the State by growing it. The State must shrink. People have an unjustified trust in the State. It has been programmed into them through school and work, and it is difficult to overcome. In fact, if you confront them about it, they will aggressively defend the State using pre-programmed responses (ie, the roads). So to make the world better, you need to get out of the Statist mindset, and start thinking as an individual. Treat the State as your enemy. It's a violent criminal gang which supports its operations via aggression and extortion. Try not paying taxes and you'll find out it's true nature. One thing you might find is that there is quite an overlap between those who are depressed and those who are outwardly atheist, and conversely, relatively low rates of depression among the religious. Wonder why that is? I think this simple image can explain an awful lot: https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1456172167373.jpg https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1456172167373.jpg
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Wow do you seem to have some kind of agenda to push. One that's dogmatic about personal responsibility and a smaller government... Where have I heard that before? Government isn't the problem, it's problems are just a reflection of sickness that infects the culture of its citizens. W all bear collective responsibility for that sickness and that's what needs fixing, that's how the world is made better.
    - sparkie 5y ago
      Government isn't always the problem, but it is almost never the solution. Every problem that government "fixes" creates half a dozen new problems. Now they need a dozen more laws to fix those. Everything becomes so complicated that you can't spot where the problem was to begin with. The problem is that government steals wealth through intimidation and violence, and then uses it for whatever purposes it sees fit. The culture is sick because it sees theft as acceptable if they benefit from the theft. They overlook that theft is inherently immoral. There is no person who knows how better to use wealth than the person who created or earned it. "We" don't all bear responsibility for government. If you choose to be a Statist, that is not on me. You don't speak for me. Your State does not speak for me. The world is made better when people create wealth, and people's living standards improve as a result. This happens despite the government pissing away much of that wealth. And yes, personal responsibility is the moral way to live. There exists no right to other people's property or time.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Wow did I nail the particular brand of agenda you're laying on. Sorry bro, no sale on your randian bullshit.
        sparkie 5y ago
        Randian? Try Rothbardian. My agenda is simply to be left alone. Your agenda is to interfere in my business.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

> You can't address societal problems before you address your own problems. To me this just sounds like more of the same stuff our societies keep pushing: that all the problems are ones of individual responsibility, not systemic flaws. You're depressed because there's something wrong with you, not the world you live in, so fix yourself instead of trying to make the world better. > And who is "we"? I guess any society where >10% of the population, and growing, is on an antidepressant.

haram_masala 5y ago
Thanks for bringing some sanity and perspective to this discussion. Just like we judge some ancient civilizations for human sacrifice as a way of securing prosperity (or whatever), someday people will look back on our use of psychiatric drugs with the same amazement and revulsion.
- sparkie 5y ago
  You're still at it. Who is "we"? What is "our"s? Stop pretending to speak for everyone else.
sparkie 5y ago
> To me this just sounds like more of the same stuff our societies keep pushing: that all the problems are ones of individual responsibility, not systemic flaws. You're depressed because there's something wrong with you, not the world you live in, so fix yourself instead of trying to make the world better. You've misinterpreted what I meant. I'm not only applying this to depressed people, but to everybody. In order to address problems, you need to start with yourself, by first understanding the problems and their causes. You can't address the problems blind. Many people's idea of "make the world better," at some point, involves having the State do something more than it was previously doing. They're shooting themselves in the foot, because the problem is the State itself. You can't fix the State by growing it. The State must shrink. People have an unjustified trust in the State. It has been programmed into them through school and work, and it is difficult to overcome. In fact, if you confront them about it, they will aggressively defend the State using pre-programmed responses (ie, the roads). So to make the world better, you need to get out of the Statist mindset, and start thinking as an individual. Treat the State as your enemy. It's a violent criminal gang which supports its operations via aggression and extortion. Try not paying taxes and you'll find out it's true nature. One thing you might find is that there is quite an overlap between those who are depressed and those who are outwardly atheist, and conversely, relatively low rates of depression among the religious. Wonder why that is? I think this simple image can explain an awful lot: https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1456172167373.jpg https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1456172167373.jpg
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Wow do you seem to have some kind of agenda to push. One that's dogmatic about personal responsibility and a smaller government... Where have I heard that before? Government isn't the problem, it's problems are just a reflection of sickness that infects the culture of its citizens. W all bear collective responsibility for that sickness and that's what needs fixing, that's how the world is made better.
  - sparkie 5y ago
    Government isn't always the problem, but it is almost never the solution. Every problem that government "fixes" creates half a dozen new problems. Now they need a dozen more laws to fix those. Everything becomes so complicated that you can't spot where the problem was to begin with. The problem is that government steals wealth through intimidation and violence, and then uses it for whatever purposes it sees fit. The culture is sick because it sees theft as acceptable if they benefit from the theft. They overlook that theft is inherently immoral. There is no person who knows how better to use wealth than the person who created or earned it. "We" don't all bear responsibility for government. If you choose to be a Statist, that is not on me. You don't speak for me. Your State does not speak for me. The world is made better when people create wealth, and people's living standards improve as a result. This happens despite the government pissing away much of that wealth. And yes, personal responsibility is the moral way to live. There exists no right to other people's property or time.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Wow did I nail the particular brand of agenda you're laying on. Sorry bro, no sale on your randian bullshit.
      - sparkie 5y ago
        Randian? Try Rothbardian. My agenda is simply to be left alone. Your agenda is to interfere in my business.