4 ms·

These prices are batshit insane. Here you get 20GB for 20 euro on prepaid with unlimited calling (which I never use at all - all my calls are on Whatsapp etc :

These prices are batshit insane. Here you get 20GB for 20 euro on prepaid with unlimited calling (which I never use at all - all my calls are on Whatsapp etc :') ). Or 5GB for 10 euro. I use the 20 euro plan as my 4G backup for when my fibre goes down and I worked a whole week off the 20GB during the first lockdown when there was such an issue (I do shut down some stuff like steam downloads and netflix with a script on my router when it's on failover). It really saved my bacon. The good thing about it is that it's even prepaid so I can just load money up on it when I need it. Strange thing is, we have 3 mobile operators here too (not counting the many MVNOs). Shouldn't be a barrier to decent competition. If you have more than 3 the available radio spectrum starts getting diluted anyway.

neom 5y ago
Our carriers argue that the country is huge and the population is low, so providing service/upgrades across it is expensive, in Toronto I'm effectively subsidizing a village of 6 somewhere random up north. However... this explanation is mostly bullshit at this point in time.
- loloquwowndueo 5y ago
  It is bullshit. On regions where there’s a strong local competitor (videotron in Quebec, Sasktel in Saskatchewan) the big three do lower their prices and offer more competitive plans - so they do have significant wiggle room without sacrificing a ton of profit. There was even a way to, say, register a phone number in Saskatchewan and use it in say Ontario, leveraging a cross-carrier agreement to basically use Rogers or Bell infrastructure at Sasktel prices. I think they found and closed this loophole, though.
- kevincox 5y ago
  While that is true it is a simplification. There are providers that service only the main populations such as FREEDOM (was WIND). However many people decided against these because they have to pay extra when leaving the city, such as visiting a cottage or going camping. So there is at least some market demand for providing wide coverage included in your base plan. (I don't really understand it though, because Freedom Mobile has agreements to roam on the other networks and while the cost is much increased, for people who leave the city once every month or two it doesn't add up to the cost of the more expensive providers. These days Freedom even includes some included roaming in their plans, presumable to help customers see this line of thinking.)
  - Filligree 5y ago
    Most people can’t afford to take the cheaper option, because it makes their expenses unpredictable. You need money in the bank if you want to do that.
  - acover 5y ago
    I believe freedom uses worse frequencies that don't penetrate walls as well. I left freedom when I'd randomly flip between roaming and not inside my house.
- II2II 5y ago
  I have been to towns up north with larger populations (one to two thousand people) and no cellular service. There are also towns where service means one tower to service the town itself, but no coverage outside of town.[1] I suspect the actual costs come from down south, where there is an expectation of coverage in lower density areas and along transportation corridors. [1] It is also plausible they installed the tower to reduce the cost of phone service. There are cases where a microwave tower is necessary to deliver any communication service to the area, so the tower is already there to provide cellular service.
- willhslade 5y ago
  Canadian telecom is a racket. When Wind was around, the Egyptian billionaire owner gave an interview saying that if he could take his entire investment out of Canada at a 10% haircut he would do it in an instant. Wind operates in 170 countries. He compared Canada to China and North Korea. More here if you're bored. I would also say to Americans looking to move to Canada in light of... recent events, be prepared to be frustrated with the lack of choice in banks, telecom, grocery chains, and doctors. https://financialpost.com/telecom/tight-reins-leaves-our-telecom-sector-open-to-criticism-but-sadly-not-competition https://financialpost.com/telecom/tight-reins-leaves-our-tel...
- seniorivn 5y ago
  in russia unlimited mobile traffic with hundreds of minutes on average among 4 major carriers cost about 6-14 usd And the only difference in costs for them compared to canada is labor cost, which is not a big part of their business model.
ng-user 5y ago
Out of curiosity, where is 'here'? Germany?
- jorams 5y ago
  Judging by their username: The Netherlands. Not sure which provider they're talking about though. Those prices suggest it's an MVNO.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    No I live in Spain but I am indeed Dutch. And no, it's not an MVNO, I use Orange Spain. The tariff I mean in particular is "Go Fly": https://www.orange.es/tarifas/movil/prepago https://www.orange.es/tarifas/movil/prepago It looks like they now upped the allowance to 65GB (35 standard and 30 as temporary "gift" :) ). Didn't even realise that. They often have temporary deals like that. I mainly use my work SIM in my phone. I think there's even better deals available here in Spain but I use Orange because they have a cell on top of this building and the 4G coverage is full bars (high buildings around so the signal reflects back to me).
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  It's Spain! https://www.orange.es/tarifas/movil/prepago https://www.orange.es/tarifas/movil/prepago
cnity 5y ago
Here in the UK I am paying around £23 for truly unlimited, including unlimited hotspot usage (no, not the type with an actual limit in the smallprint). For a period of about two months I was tethering my smart TV to my phone while the broadband was being upgraded and was a bit shaky. I was using around 200GB a month. I would never want to go back from unlimited.
dade_ 5y ago
MVNOs are not allowed in Canada. The 3 carriers have even paid for economic studies that state it would be devastating to the the telecom market and innovation. They also own media conglomerates, who 'independently' agree. MVNOs would only disrupt their ability to buy sports teams. This does come up in elections, but so far they have gotten away with window dressing.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  > MVNOs are not allowed in Canada. The 3 carriers have even paid for economic studies that state it would be devastating to the the telecom market and innovation. Like the devastation it brought to all the other countries where it's been a success? :D Sometimes I don't know how these lobbyists manage to make this stuff up.
- bb101 5y ago
  Seems like the mobile industry and ISPs in Canada have the same problem as in Australia: too few people across too wide a space. The incumbents will only agree to improve and service their network if they are given protected positions by their government. Leads to results like 10Mbps fibre NBN "broadband" and CAD$80+/mo plans for 30GB of data. Far inferior to that enjoyed by UK and Europe.
nelblu 5y ago
The pricing chart on that page is for customers who are not smart enough to shop around. I have lived both in the US and Canada and in the US I used to pay 120USD for 6 lines with 2.5GB data per line(T-mobile). In Canada currently I am paying 20CAD per month for 1.5GB data (Public Mobile).
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
I pay $95/year right now for a prepaid 1GB/Mo, unlimited talk & text plan. Sometimes I go outside of the cellular network and yeah it's only 2G in most areas, but the only thing I need cellular for outside of my home is GPS or to quickly pull up a site for information. The predominant amount of my data usage is through wifi at home and places I trust.

neom 5y ago

Our carriers argue that the country is huge and the population is low, so providing service/upgrades across it is expensive, in Toronto I'm effectively subsidizing a village of 6 somewhere random up north. However... this explanation is mostly bullshit at this point in time.

loloquwowndueo 5y ago
It is bullshit. On regions where there’s a strong local competitor (videotron in Quebec, Sasktel in Saskatchewan) the big three do lower their prices and offer more competitive plans - so they do have significant wiggle room without sacrificing a ton of profit. There was even a way to, say, register a phone number in Saskatchewan and use it in say Ontario, leveraging a cross-carrier agreement to basically use Rogers or Bell infrastructure at Sasktel prices. I think they found and closed this loophole, though.
kevincox 5y ago
While that is true it is a simplification. There are providers that service only the main populations such as FREEDOM (was WIND). However many people decided against these because they have to pay extra when leaving the city, such as visiting a cottage or going camping. So there is at least some market demand for providing wide coverage included in your base plan. (I don't really understand it though, because Freedom Mobile has agreements to roam on the other networks and while the cost is much increased, for people who leave the city once every month or two it doesn't add up to the cost of the more expensive providers. These days Freedom even includes some included roaming in their plans, presumable to help customers see this line of thinking.)
- Filligree 5y ago
  Most people can’t afford to take the cheaper option, because it makes their expenses unpredictable. You need money in the bank if you want to do that.
- acover 5y ago
  I believe freedom uses worse frequencies that don't penetrate walls as well. I left freedom when I'd randomly flip between roaming and not inside my house.
II2II 5y ago
I have been to towns up north with larger populations (one to two thousand people) and no cellular service. There are also towns where service means one tower to service the town itself, but no coverage outside of town.[1] I suspect the actual costs come from down south, where there is an expectation of coverage in lower density areas and along transportation corridors. [1] It is also plausible they installed the tower to reduce the cost of phone service. There are cases where a microwave tower is necessary to deliver any communication service to the area, so the tower is already there to provide cellular service.
willhslade 5y ago
Canadian telecom is a racket. When Wind was around, the Egyptian billionaire owner gave an interview saying that if he could take his entire investment out of Canada at a 10% haircut he would do it in an instant. Wind operates in 170 countries. He compared Canada to China and North Korea. More here if you're bored. I would also say to Americans looking to move to Canada in light of... recent events, be prepared to be frustrated with the lack of choice in banks, telecom, grocery chains, and doctors. https://financialpost.com/telecom/tight-reins-leaves-our-telecom-sector-open-to-criticism-but-sadly-not-competition https://financialpost.com/telecom/tight-reins-leaves-our-tel...
seniorivn 5y ago
in russia unlimited mobile traffic with hundreds of minutes on average among 4 major carriers cost about 6-14 usd And the only difference in costs for them compared to canada is labor cost, which is not a big part of their business model.

ng-user 5y ago

Out of curiosity, where is 'here'? Germany?

jorams 5y ago
Judging by their username: The Netherlands. Not sure which provider they're talking about though. Those prices suggest it's an MVNO.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  No I live in Spain but I am indeed Dutch. And no, it's not an MVNO, I use Orange Spain. The tariff I mean in particular is "Go Fly": https://www.orange.es/tarifas/movil/prepago https://www.orange.es/tarifas/movil/prepago It looks like they now upped the allowance to 65GB (35 standard and 30 as temporary "gift" :) ). Didn't even realise that. They often have temporary deals like that. I mainly use my work SIM in my phone. I think there's even better deals available here in Spain but I use Orange because they have a cell on top of this building and the 4G coverage is full bars (high buildings around so the signal reflects back to me).
GekkePrutser 5y ago
It's Spain! https://www.orange.es/tarifas/movil/prepago https://www.orange.es/tarifas/movil/prepago

cnity 5y ago

Here in the UK I am paying around £23 for truly unlimited, including unlimited hotspot usage (no, not the type with an actual limit in the smallprint). For a period of about two months I was tethering my smart TV to my phone while the broadband was being upgraded and was a bit shaky. I was using around 200GB a month. I would never want to go back from unlimited.

dade_ 5y ago

MVNOs are not allowed in Canada. The 3 carriers have even paid for economic studies that state it would be devastating to the the telecom market and innovation. They also own media conglomerates, who 'independently' agree. MVNOs would only disrupt their ability to buy sports teams. This does come up in elections, but so far they have gotten away with window dressing.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
> MVNOs are not allowed in Canada. The 3 carriers have even paid for economic studies that state it would be devastating to the the telecom market and innovation. Like the devastation it brought to all the other countries where it's been a success? :D Sometimes I don't know how these lobbyists manage to make this stuff up.
bb101 5y ago
Seems like the mobile industry and ISPs in Canada have the same problem as in Australia: too few people across too wide a space. The incumbents will only agree to improve and service their network if they are given protected positions by their government. Leads to results like 10Mbps fibre NBN "broadband" and CAD$80+/mo plans for 30GB of data. Far inferior to that enjoyed by UK and Europe.

nelblu 5y ago

The pricing chart on that page is for customers who are not smart enough to shop around. I have lived both in the US and Canada and in the US I used to pay 120USD for 6 lines with 2.5GB data per line(T-mobile). In Canada currently I am paying 20CAD per month for 1.5GB data (Public Mobile).

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

I pay $95/year right now for a prepaid 1GB/Mo, unlimited talk & text plan. Sometimes I go outside of the cellular network and yeah it's only 2G in most areas, but the only thing I need cellular for outside of my home is GPS or to quickly pull up a site for information. The predominant amount of my data usage is through wifi at home and places I trust.