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Assuming that failed communist states "are not communist" is is a dangerous fallacy which keeps alive the idea that "Communism works but has never been tried in

Assuming that failed communist states "are not communist" is is a dangerous fallacy which keeps alive the idea that "Communism works but has never been tried in real life". The CCP is a communist party in one of the end stages of the ideology just like the Soviet communist party was a communist party in one of its end stages, just like all the other failed communist states were led by communist parties in their end stages. The problem lies with the ideology, not with the implementation thereof.

smcl 5y ago
You're putting words in my mouth to provoke an argument, don't do that. There are plenty of very enthusiastic supporters of communism elsewhere who will be happy to have that discussion with you, I specifically said I didn't want to encourage it here.
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  There are plenty of very enthusiastic supporters of national socialism who will be happy to have a discussion on that subject yet we do not avoid pointing out the failure of the doctrine and teach our children about the resulting carnage. The same standard should be used when discussing communism no matter how many very enthusiastic supporters it has.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - smcl 5y ago
    What I’m saying is - you’re clearly desperate for a fight with someone. You can definitely find one somewhere, but not here no matter how edgy or provocative you are.
bzzzt 5y ago
I'm wondering what the end state of our democratic capitalistic states will be...
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  That will very much depend on how the societies handle the loss of employment opportunities caused by increased automation. People need to have a purpose in life, a goal to work towards to. Just giving them a basic income and entertainment will not work, in such a 'Utopia' the populace will eventually break the machines just so that something interesting happens. Maybe a new frontier will be opened, e.g. artificial islands in the oceans which can be built and populated or a space colony, something to give those who seek a challenge a way to fulfil their wanderlust. Maybe war will intervene and make the question moot by giving those in search of purpose or adventure a ready-made answer. A quick perusal of history shows that new frontiers and wars seem to be the most common providers of purpose to those in search for it. In other words we better hope that someone like Musk will make good on the promise of a new frontier - we need one to have something to aim at other than at our neighbour.
redis_mlc 5y ago
The parent is 100% correct. The fact that Communist leaders cling to power until they die should tell you everything you need to know. Or a more concrete example is the on-going suppression of HK, including closing newspapers and even violently smashing NTD's printing presses.

smcl 5y ago

You're putting words in my mouth to provoke an argument, don't do that. There are plenty of very enthusiastic supporters of communism elsewhere who will be happy to have that discussion with you, I specifically said I didn't want to encourage it here.

the_third_wave 5y ago
There are plenty of very enthusiastic supporters of national socialism who will be happy to have a discussion on that subject yet we do not avoid pointing out the failure of the doctrine and teach our children about the resulting carnage. The same standard should be used when discussing communism no matter how many very enthusiastic supporters it has.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- smcl 5y ago
  What I’m saying is - you’re clearly desperate for a fight with someone. You can definitely find one somewhere, but not here no matter how edgy or provocative you are.

bzzzt 5y ago

I'm wondering what the end state of our democratic capitalistic states will be...

the_third_wave 5y ago
That will very much depend on how the societies handle the loss of employment opportunities caused by increased automation. People need to have a purpose in life, a goal to work towards to. Just giving them a basic income and entertainment will not work, in such a 'Utopia' the populace will eventually break the machines just so that something interesting happens. Maybe a new frontier will be opened, e.g. artificial islands in the oceans which can be built and populated or a space colony, something to give those who seek a challenge a way to fulfil their wanderlust. Maybe war will intervene and make the question moot by giving those in search of purpose or adventure a ready-made answer. A quick perusal of history shows that new frontiers and wars seem to be the most common providers of purpose to those in search for it. In other words we better hope that someone like Musk will make good on the promise of a new frontier - we need one to have something to aim at other than at our neighbour.

redis_mlc 5y ago

The parent is 100% correct. The fact that Communist leaders cling to power until they die should tell you everything you need to know. Or a more concrete example is the on-going suppression of HK, including closing newspapers and even violently smashing NTD's printing presses.