7 ms·
The very excellent effect of Ma's downfall is that it will remind wealthy people in the West that democracy has its good points. Much easier to sympathize with
by scandox 5y ago
The very excellent effect of Ma's downfall is that it will remind wealthy people in the West that democracy has its good points.
Much easier to sympathize with the expropriation of a Billionaire than some schlub from the middle of nowhere.
- hulitu 5y ago> The very excellent effect of Ma's downfall is that it will remind wealthy people in the West that democracy has its good points. Yes, like protecting rich criminals. > Much easier to sympathize with the expropriation of a Billionaire than some schlub from the middle of nowhere. Some people never have enough. It is good that sometimes they are shown that limits exist.
- anm89 5y agoNice endorsement of kidnapping and violence against people who have "too much". Fits every criteria of fascism and yet I bet you don't wear that label outwardly.
- lucian1900 5y agoFascism is a tool of the rich to use those fallen from (some amount of) grace against organised labour that might otherwise mount a successful revolution. There’s a reason the first targets have always been communists and labour organisers, not industry owners. Look at what fascists do, not at what they say.
- anm89 5y agoI have no evidence either way of what this person does and they verbally advocate for violence against people they don't like to achieve political ends. So I'm going to stick with them seeming pretty facistic.
- lucian1900 5y agoViolence isn’t inherently fascist. Capitalism uses violence against the working class to maintain profits for the owning class. Revolutions of the working class are violent, yet they end the former violence and exploitation. Fascism is violence to protect the owning class from a revolution by the working class. Suppression of capitalists after a working class revolution is also violence to prevent them from regaining power to yet again use violence to exploit the working class. Violence is just one way to exert power.
- anm89 5y agoI'll stick with that being fascism. Feel free to debate semantics all you want. It's not the important part of the argument.
- lucian1900 5y agoThe meanings of words matter if we are to understand each other. Fascism has a very specific historical meaning. Violence is a far more general concept.
- anm89 5y agoRight. And what he's talking about is fascism so I'm calling it fascism.
- lucian1900 5y agoNot at all, no. They’re talking about a workers’ state using violence against a capitalist exploiter. If it was a billionaire calling for former small business owners to attack organised labour, that’d be fascism.
- kzzzznot 5y agoIs Jack Ma a criminal? And to your second point, are you saying that it is good to threaten, silence or disappear wealthy people in case they might become a threat to your authoritarian regime? I suppose from a purely practical point of view yes that might be the best move. We seem to disagree on the ethics of authoritarianism though.
- pydry 5y ago>democracy has its good points That when billionaires become powerful enough to exert unchecked power we lavish praise instead of imprisoning them?
- roenxi 5y agoWould you rather billionaires exerting "unchecked power" or party officials exerting actual, unchecked, power? Because the unchecked power of the typical billionaire couldn't achieve what is being done to Jack Ma.
- pydry 5y agoI'm indifferent. Honestly I think I'd rather see elites fighting among themselves than select a particular brand of unchecked unaccountable power to be lorded over me. Would you prefer to live under Kim Jong Il or Kim Jong Un?
- ng12 5y agoIt's not about the elites. If China's not afraid to disappear their richest, most internationally well-known celebrities what does that mean for the average citizen?
- pydry 5y agoNot much? They were never afraid to disappear them either.
- roenxi 5y agoThe Kim family don't draw any of their power from being billionaires. If there was a choice between someone like Jack Ma running the show or the North Korean Kim family ... Jack Ma is a much better bet.
- fellowniusmonk 5y agoAgree, people often seem to downplay or ignore the power of incarceration. It's a completely different type of power than ad tech and a myriad of other lesser powers, it is the most in need of thorough checks and balances.
- busterarm 5y agoIf you think this side of the worlds' Marxists don't get fully erect when reading about what happened to Jack Ma, then you don't realize how bad it really is. Just look at my sibling comments here...