4 ms·

.ecneirepxe tfel-ot-thgir ,reporp a etamixorppa ot siht ekil yalpsid ot txet deen dluow uoy ,noinipo ym n'I

by 174SIGSEGV 5y ago

doubleunplussed 5y ago
Surprisingly readable
LeoNatan25 5y ago
איבן בטר, וואי נוט רייט איט אין אה פרופר רייט טו לפט לנגואג׳?
- names_are_hard 5y ago
  Because then the site would not demonstrate the pain caused by poor RTL support, as most of its target audience will not be able to make sense of the script. The point is that even when you understand the script and the language, you find yourself looking at a website with messed up formatting, punctuation in the wrong place, and broken sentences when BiDi gets involved. Those of us who deal with this all the time are used to it, but most people have no idea how broken things are.
chrismorgan 5y ago
Except that what this site is demonstrating isn’t so much “right-to-left” as “the pain users of right-to-left languages experience when you implement things badly, especially with regards to BiDi problems”.
- rock_artist 5y ago
  Not sure I understand how it demonstrates BiDi problems. The real BiDi problems come when you got a context of LTR in RTL. For example: אני חושב שזה cool לכתוב מילה באנגלית. This is where things goes wrong. And we didn't even start with text selection...
  - chrismorgan 5y ago
    The site demonstrates the problems in two ways: ① Setting `text-align: right` so that you can feel the weirdness that `text-align: left` will produce for RTL languages. ② And for BiDi: setting `direction: rtl`, and using a mixture of strong LTR characters (e.g. letters) and neutral characters (e.g. punctuation). This combination results in the neutral characters going RTL, which is why you end up with things like “.solve them” and “→ ?What is this” rather than “solve them.” and “What is this? →”. It’s demonstrating things that are commonly done wrong the other way (when the document says it’s LTR, but contains RTL text).
  - names_are_hard 5y ago
    It's not the homepage but the site has an entire article on the exactly this. https://rtl.wtf/explained/bidiintro.html https://rtl.wtf/explained/bidiintro.html
h0l0cube 5y ago
I think all West Asian scripts are is right-to-left, then top-to-bottom. I think Japanese/Chinese scripts can be top-to-bottom, then right-to-left, but may vary. I don't think there's are any bottom-to-top?
- masklinn 5y ago
  > I don't think there's are any bottom-to-top? There are philipino and indonesian scripts which ars written bottom-to-top, though they are read left to right. Ogham is bottom to to though. I think there’s also a script which is read and written based on cardinal directions, but i can’t find it. I was expecting it to be indigenous australian (as several IA people use absolute directions as a matter of course).
  - h0l0cube 5y ago
    That's really fascinating. Thanks for sharing
- Asraelite 5y ago
  What exactly due you mean by "West Asian"? Georgian and Armenian are left-to-right.
  - h0l0cube 5y ago
    I was painting with too broad a brush. Of course it's not all languages across that region
ebcode 5y ago
.pot ot mottob morf ti daer ot evah ouy taht si hgouht sdrawkcab gnitirw htiw melborp ehT .ti edulcni dna kcabdeef ruoy etaroprocni lliw srenwo etis eht ebyaM .dnif ot gnipoh saw I pilf niarb eht saw sihT.
- sterlind 5y ago
  nah, if you use `unicode-bidi: bidi-override` and force `direction: rtl` it'll still flow top to bottom. a conlang I speak is cursive RTL so I've made extensive use of this. side-note: it's a major peeve of mine that Unicode's entire Private Use Area is plain Latin in terms of properties. there's no way of setting RTL other than using CSS or prefixing an RTL Override character, which gets old fast in text editors. no font system, including Graphite, lets you override Unicode glyph properties to my knowledge.

.ecneirepxe tfel-ot-thgir ,reporp a etamixorppa ot siht ekil yalpsid ot txet deen dluow uoy ,noinipo ym n'I

doubleunplussed 5y ago

Surprisingly readable

LeoNatan25 5y ago

איבן בטר, וואי נוט רייט איט אין אה פרופר רייט טו לפט לנגואג׳?

names_are_hard 5y ago
Because then the site would not demonstrate the pain caused by poor RTL support, as most of its target audience will not be able to make sense of the script. The point is that even when you understand the script and the language, you find yourself looking at a website with messed up formatting, punctuation in the wrong place, and broken sentences when BiDi gets involved. Those of us who deal with this all the time are used to it, but most people have no idea how broken things are.

chrismorgan 5y ago

Except that what this site is demonstrating isn’t so much “right-to-left” as “the pain users of right-to-left languages experience when you implement things badly, especially with regards to BiDi problems”.

rock_artist 5y ago
Not sure I understand how it demonstrates BiDi problems. The real BiDi problems come when you got a context of LTR in RTL. For example: אני חושב שזה cool לכתוב מילה באנגלית. This is where things goes wrong. And we didn't even start with text selection...
- chrismorgan 5y ago
  The site demonstrates the problems in two ways: ① Setting `text-align: right` so that you can feel the weirdness that `text-align: left` will produce for RTL languages. ② And for BiDi: setting `direction: rtl`, and using a mixture of strong LTR characters (e.g. letters) and neutral characters (e.g. punctuation). This combination results in the neutral characters going RTL, which is why you end up with things like “.solve them” and “→ ?What is this” rather than “solve them.” and “What is this? →”. It’s demonstrating things that are commonly done wrong the other way (when the document says it’s LTR, but contains RTL text).
- names_are_hard 5y ago
  It's not the homepage but the site has an entire article on the exactly this. https://rtl.wtf/explained/bidiintro.html https://rtl.wtf/explained/bidiintro.html

h0l0cube 5y ago

I think all West Asian scripts are is right-to-left, then top-to-bottom. I think Japanese/Chinese scripts can be top-to-bottom, then right-to-left, but may vary. I don't think there's are any bottom-to-top?

masklinn 5y ago
> I don't think there's are any bottom-to-top? There are philipino and indonesian scripts which ars written bottom-to-top, though they are read left to right. Ogham is bottom to to though. I think there’s also a script which is read and written based on cardinal directions, but i can’t find it. I was expecting it to be indigenous australian (as several IA people use absolute directions as a matter of course).
- h0l0cube 5y ago
  That's really fascinating. Thanks for sharing
Asraelite 5y ago
What exactly due you mean by "West Asian"? Georgian and Armenian are left-to-right.
- h0l0cube 5y ago
  I was painting with too broad a brush. Of course it's not all languages across that region

ebcode 5y ago

.pot ot mottob morf ti daer ot evah ouy taht si hgouht sdrawkcab gnitirw htiw melborp ehT .ti edulcni dna kcabdeef ruoy etaroprocni lliw srenwo etis eht ebyaM .dnif ot gnipoh saw I pilf niarb eht saw sihT.

sterlind 5y ago
nah, if you use `unicode-bidi: bidi-override` and force `direction: rtl` it'll still flow top to bottom. a conlang I speak is cursive RTL so I've made extensive use of this. side-note: it's a major peeve of mine that Unicode's entire Private Use Area is plain Latin in terms of properties. there's no way of setting RTL other than using CSS or prefixing an RTL Override character, which gets old fast in text editors. no font system, including Graphite, lets you override Unicode glyph properties to my knowledge.