6 ms·

Another thing Northern Europe has going for it is that we generally go all-in on insulation. 300mm of insulation are norm in newly built house, meaning you can

Another thing Northern Europe has going for it is that we generally go all-in on insulation. 300mm of insulation are norm in newly built house, meaning you can heat a whole house above the Arctic line with less than 5000 kWh a year. Insulation is _dirt cheap_ compared to lifetime heating costs AND it also keeps the house cool during the summer. Such a no-brainer.

kpozin 5y ago
Out of curiosity, what is the effect of this thick insulation on indoor CO₂ levels? Do these houses usually have ventilation systems that can compensate?
- tomarr 5y ago
  They are designed for a number of air changes per hour/day which would be analogous I guess. I can't remember the number but a Google will tell you, it's different depending on the kind of environment (office/home etc)
- brtkdotse 5y ago
  Usually heat exchanger ventilations. Fresh air comes in and exchanges heat with used air coming out, so you get fresh air but with the indoor temperature.
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilator) systems are really cool, too. They solve the ages old problem of bringing fresh air into a home without losing all of the temperature and humidity from the internal environment.
- roel_v 5y ago
  Yes you need active ventilation systems, because the thermal efficiency is highly dependant on the house being airtight - to the point where efficiency scores are calculated by overpressuring the house (basically taping a huge fan into the front door with all other doors and windows shut) and measuring the pressure loss. When applying insulation, contractors have to meticulously use foam to seal everything up. It's a major part of the work when building a new house and just a few mistakes can seriously affect thermal performance.
- jcynix 5y ago
  Our house (with a ground based heat pump) uses active ventilation with heat exchangers (and pollen filters) and as a result we have better indoor air than we've had in rented flats in all years before.
z3t4 5y ago
The isolation is made to keep the house hot. About 10 degrees hotter then the outside (without the heater on). This is usually not a problem as temperatures are around 15 during the summer and you can open a few windows to let the hot air out. It does become a problem however when we get extreme temperatures like +30 C as you cant lower the temp by opening a window. Compared to south europe and other warm climates where the houses are built to stay cool.
- konschubert 5y ago
  As far as I know, Insulation should keep the house cool in summer, because it keeps the heat out. Of course, once the heat is in, you need a way to get it out (at night, through windows). Unlike a greenhouse, insulation is not directional.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    If you are only worried about natural cooling, insulation is not the answer. You want a poor insulated house with a lot of shade, and large open windows for the wind to blow through. Most people these days want more than natural cooling. As soon as you decide to have an AC system installed more insulation is better for the reasons you state.
    - brtkdotse 5y ago
      No. You never want poor insulation. Poor insulation means that the indoor temperature will always match outdoor temperature. There's not such thing as "natural cooling", only thermodynamics.
      - bluGill 5y ago
        Natural cooling is about sweat (water evaporation), and staying in the shade. Lots of wind helps.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      It depends on the insulation type. If you're using mass as insulation, it can keep the house very cool. This is a common effect in stone houses and barns as they stay closer to the average daily/weekly tempature because it takes a long time for the tempature of that much mass to change.
thebiss 5y ago
We have insulation thickness standards in the US, varying by weather "zone", but for residential construction they seem to be lightly enforced, and efficiency tests are rare to non-existant. (For an illustration of how we typically insulate, see [0].) It's only one data point, but I'm in New England and from my home office I've watched builders replace 3 1960's-era homes with large colonials. Each is insulated with fiberglass, no visible foam, and nothing outside the sheathing (exterior plywood) except vapor paper / tyvek. Sure, it meets code requirements for inches of insulation, but it's far from air tight or efficient. [0] https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/where-insulate-home https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/where-insulate-home

kpozin 5y ago

Out of curiosity, what is the effect of this thick insulation on indoor CO₂ levels? Do these houses usually have ventilation systems that can compensate?

tomarr 5y ago
They are designed for a number of air changes per hour/day which would be analogous I guess. I can't remember the number but a Google will tell you, it's different depending on the kind of environment (office/home etc)
brtkdotse 5y ago
Usually heat exchanger ventilations. Fresh air comes in and exchanges heat with used air coming out, so you get fresh air but with the indoor temperature.
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilator) systems are really cool, too. They solve the ages old problem of bringing fresh air into a home without losing all of the temperature and humidity from the internal environment.
roel_v 5y ago
Yes you need active ventilation systems, because the thermal efficiency is highly dependant on the house being airtight - to the point where efficiency scores are calculated by overpressuring the house (basically taping a huge fan into the front door with all other doors and windows shut) and measuring the pressure loss. When applying insulation, contractors have to meticulously use foam to seal everything up. It's a major part of the work when building a new house and just a few mistakes can seriously affect thermal performance.
jcynix 5y ago
Our house (with a ground based heat pump) uses active ventilation with heat exchangers (and pollen filters) and as a result we have better indoor air than we've had in rented flats in all years before.

z3t4 5y ago

The isolation is made to keep the house hot. About 10 degrees hotter then the outside (without the heater on). This is usually not a problem as temperatures are around 15 during the summer and you can open a few windows to let the hot air out. It does become a problem however when we get extreme temperatures like +30 C as you cant lower the temp by opening a window. Compared to south europe and other warm climates where the houses are built to stay cool.

konschubert 5y ago
As far as I know, Insulation should keep the house cool in summer, because it keeps the heat out. Of course, once the heat is in, you need a way to get it out (at night, through windows). Unlike a greenhouse, insulation is not directional.
- bluGill 5y ago
  If you are only worried about natural cooling, insulation is not the answer. You want a poor insulated house with a lot of shade, and large open windows for the wind to blow through. Most people these days want more than natural cooling. As soon as you decide to have an AC system installed more insulation is better for the reasons you state.
  - brtkdotse 5y ago
    No. You never want poor insulation. Poor insulation means that the indoor temperature will always match outdoor temperature. There's not such thing as "natural cooling", only thermodynamics.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      Natural cooling is about sweat (water evaporation), and staying in the shade. Lots of wind helps.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    It depends on the insulation type. If you're using mass as insulation, it can keep the house very cool. This is a common effect in stone houses and barns as they stay closer to the average daily/weekly tempature because it takes a long time for the tempature of that much mass to change.

thebiss 5y ago

We have insulation thickness standards in the US, varying by weather "zone", but for residential construction they seem to be lightly enforced, and efficiency tests are rare to non-existant. (For an illustration of how we typically insulate, see [0].) It's only one data point, but I'm in New England and from my home office I've watched builders replace 3 1960's-era homes with large colonials. Each is insulated with fiberglass, no visible foam, and nothing outside the sheathing (exterior plywood) except vapor paper / tyvek. Sure, it meets code requirements for inches of insulation, but it's far from air tight or efficient. [0] https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/where-insulate-home https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/where-insulate-home