4 ms·

"Let's trap people in bad marriages" is exactly the social infrastructure I'm criticizing.

rayiner 5y ago
What’s a “bad marriage?” I think there are some that are truly bad and should be dissolved. But I think in many cases (perhaps the majority), people are simply indulging their own selfishness and poor impulse control at the expense of their kids. Americans highly prioritize (to my eyes, as a foreigner, childish) notions of self actualization and individual happiness over duty to family. And then there’s the kids whose parents never got married, typically because the father is stuck in some sort of extended adolescence. My siblings in law come from one of those middle/lower middle class primarily white towns you sometimes read about, where two-parent families have declined tremendously. The devastation to the kids is real. Comfortable finances dissolve into financial strain. Lack of stability affects kids’ performance in school. Boys, in particular, suffer growing up without fathers to keep them in line. (It wasn’t until I had boys of my own that I realized how differently they often relate to their mothers versus their fathers. And trust me, we’re not modeling traditional gender roles at my house—my wife’s a scary trial lawyer who pays our mortgage.)
- cpach 5y ago
  Interesting reflections. It probably goes hand in hand with the US culture where individual mobility (both geographically and economically) seems to be highly regarded (which also has many positive effects). I live in Sweden. Since the late 19th century or so, and especially after WW2, we’re very influenced by the US and I can see the same tendencies here.
  - cloudfifty 5y ago
    You really can't compare with Sweden. Sweden is a much more secular country and marriage is for a lot of people just a nice one-off ceremony get together totally devoid of any religious feelings. It doesn't carry close to the same weight as in the US.

What’s a “bad marriage?” I think there are some that are truly bad and should be dissolved. But I think in many cases (perhaps the majority), people are simply indulging their own selfishness and poor impulse control at the expense of their kids. Americans highly prioritize (to my eyes, as a foreigner, childish) notions of self actualization and individual happiness over duty to family. And then there’s the kids whose parents never got married, typically because the father is stuck in some sort of extended adolescence. My siblings in law come from one of those middle/lower middle class primarily white towns you sometimes read about, where two-parent families have declined tremendously. The devastation to the kids is real. Comfortable finances dissolve into financial strain. Lack of stability affects kids’ performance in school. Boys, in particular, suffer growing up without fathers to keep them in line. (It wasn’t until I had boys of my own that I realized how differently they often relate to their mothers versus their fathers. And trust me, we’re not modeling traditional gender roles at my house—my wife’s a scary trial lawyer who pays our mortgage.)

cpach 5y ago
Interesting reflections. It probably goes hand in hand with the US culture where individual mobility (both geographically and economically) seems to be highly regarded (which also has many positive effects). I live in Sweden. Since the late 19th century or so, and especially after WW2, we’re very influenced by the US and I can see the same tendencies here.
- cloudfifty 5y ago
  You really can't compare with Sweden. Sweden is a much more secular country and marriage is for a lot of people just a nice one-off ceremony get together totally devoid of any religious feelings. It doesn't carry close to the same weight as in the US.