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The technology exists, right. But have you experienced it anywhere outside of China? I, for one, have not (at least in the UE). I strongly believe that the aver

The technology exists, right. But have you experienced it anywhere outside of China? I, for one, have not (at least in the UE). I strongly believe that the average western customer is not be willing to go through such a process.

rvnx 5y ago
Yes in Estonia is quite common
egeozcan 5y ago
It's common when applying for a credit online. They also make you hold your ID towards the camera, show the hologram, read some text etc.
hobofan 5y ago
Basically every modern "mobile-first" bank/stock brokerage app, etc. is built on that. With a lot of them there is still a human in the process giving you the instructions (usually from a call center), but it's gradually shifting to tech-only solutions.
jamil7 5y ago
Most (all maybe?) of the new German banks and fintech products seem to offer it as they have no physical branches, you can often open accounts directly from your smartphone. Some will offer a way of identifying yourself via a post office with your passport too.
- rjzzleep 5y ago
  What the person above means is different. If you open an account, nowadays you have to ask someone that already has a Wechat account to scan a QR code to vouch that you are indeed who you claim to be. It doesn't actually do ID identification though and it doesn't have to be a Chinese mainland user. It can be any other active Wechat account. Full ID Identification only works with a China mainland bank account IIRC. What the person above implies is that the other two are on the hook when you start spreading any Government information. I'd assume that the government would investigate anyone in your friend list if you do that though regardless of whether they verified you or not, so it's kind of a minor detail in my opinion.
  - jamil7 5y ago
    Got it, thanks for clarifying.
  - marderfarker2 5y ago
    Really? I’m outside of China, and signed up for WeChat (for work) but never had to do any of the KYC things. They only took my number to send an OTP. If they ask for KYC in the mainland I suppose it’s understandable since it serves a lot more than a chat app there (payment, SSO for a lot of other services).
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      When I tried to install WeChat because I was going to travel to China, it kept making me verify my account repeatedly, I guess it was because my phone was rooted...
  - kgwgk 5y ago
    > What the person above means is different What person? The first paragraph in ev1’s comment (and the ‘liveness’ reference in the reply) are not about ‘vouching’.
- ev1 5y ago
  This is for the equivalent of Facebook Messenger or playing a F2P game, not fintech - bank requires even more, and linking a "real name ID" IRL bank account anyway.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Wechat in the mainland actually does do fintech.
hulitu 5y ago
You cannot activate a sim card in Germany without proof of ID
- gambiting 5y ago
  That's hardly comparable though. No one is taking your voice print and biometric details to match everything you ever say or do against you just to activate a sim card. Not to mention that buying a travel sim card that doesn't require ID is absolutely trivial, or even getting one shipped from any other European country which doesn't have this requirement is simple and easy. Yeah it's a faff, but at least no one will accuse you of being an enemy of the state if you do this like trying to avoid tagging in China.
  - francescovv 5y ago
    > No one is taking your voice print and biometric details Some Italian cell operators do. For example, when you are buying a new sim card for Iliad, you do this in front of an automated kiosk where you have to scan your ID, then face camera and say outloud "my name is Insert Your Name Here, and I would like to make a phone service contract with Iliad".
    - gambiting 5y ago
      Ok, I stand corrected then :-) Had no idea this was a thing.
    - toomanybeersies 5y ago
      Is that for voice printing purposes, or is it in lieu of signing your name on a paper contract?
  - rotebeete 5y ago
    > No one is taking your voice print SIM cards are used for transmitting voice in an insecure fashion, so you can't be sure. Some voice codecs are even designed to do something very similiar to fingerprinting voices. > No one is taking your [...] biometric details They were already taken when you had¹ to get the ID in the first place. ¹ The federal republic directly adopted laws from nazi germany requiring ID for every citizen. This law was initially introduced to acquire data about jews and people fit for military service. > to match everything you ever say or do against you just to activate a sim card This was never about surveillance by private entities! Federal agencys can match everything you say based on the fact that the SIM card in your portable bug is linked directly to you. > but at least no one will accuse you of being an enemy of the state if you do this like trying to avoid tagging in China. You can be certain that you end up in a database if you use a foreign SIM card from a non-KYC-country for a long period of time in a residential area. Your only defence is your network provider not cooperating unless forced by law. Germany is being turned into a surveillance state bit by bit and I am fed up by people trying to defend it!
cercatrova 5y ago
Yes, in the US, when signing up for cryptocurrency related services like Coinbase or Binance I believe.
Symbiote 5y ago
I used it to access my medical records from the UK without actually going to the UK. I thought that was reasonable, but it didn't occur to me that reading the numbers was enough to train an AI to reproduce my voice. Now I'm less sure.
maccard 5y ago
Yep, in the UK. My solicitor required it for kyc for a house purchase during the pandemic
- cameronh90 5y ago
  Nice. Mine required me to send them certified originals and a handwritten declaration through the post. Seems I need a more tech-savvy solicitor...
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Seems you are in fine hands.
StreamBright 5y ago
Yes, I have.
cameronh90 5y ago
I've signed up for several bank accounts lately (due to the 85k insurance limit on UK banks). All of them had this "liveness verification". I think it's actually a legal requirement in the UK if they wish to allow you to sign up online.
wrycoder 5y ago
I called Fidelity in the US about my account, and the agent told me the system was taking a voice print, to be used to verify me the next time I called in.
- atatatat 5y ago
  Did you tell them to opt you out...?
  - wrycoder 5y ago
    My guess is you can't.
alickz 5y ago
I've had to add this exact functionality ("Look left and repeat these numbers") as part of KYC for a mobile app similar to Revolut. This is in conjunction with ID scanning. I think this functionality was necessary as part of complying with KYC laws. And AFAIK WeChat has very similar functionality to Revolut (among much more) so even if the app was non-Chinese (e.g. European), it would need a similar flow.
lobocinza 5y ago
I believe that the average customer anywhere just don't care. I care but nonetheless did go through such a process as it was somewhat required for me to pay taxes on Brazil using 'Gov.br' SSI app.

rvnx 5y ago

Yes in Estonia is quite common

egeozcan 5y ago

It's common when applying for a credit online. They also make you hold your ID towards the camera, show the hologram, read some text etc.

hobofan 5y ago

Basically every modern "mobile-first" bank/stock brokerage app, etc. is built on that. With a lot of them there is still a human in the process giving you the instructions (usually from a call center), but it's gradually shifting to tech-only solutions.

jamil7 5y ago

Most (all maybe?) of the new German banks and fintech products seem to offer it as they have no physical branches, you can often open accounts directly from your smartphone. Some will offer a way of identifying yourself via a post office with your passport too.

rjzzleep 5y ago
What the person above means is different. If you open an account, nowadays you have to ask someone that already has a Wechat account to scan a QR code to vouch that you are indeed who you claim to be. It doesn't actually do ID identification though and it doesn't have to be a Chinese mainland user. It can be any other active Wechat account. Full ID Identification only works with a China mainland bank account IIRC. What the person above implies is that the other two are on the hook when you start spreading any Government information. I'd assume that the government would investigate anyone in your friend list if you do that though regardless of whether they verified you or not, so it's kind of a minor detail in my opinion.
- jamil7 5y ago
  Got it, thanks for clarifying.
- marderfarker2 5y ago
  Really? I’m outside of China, and signed up for WeChat (for work) but never had to do any of the KYC things. They only took my number to send an OTP. If they ask for KYC in the mainland I suppose it’s understandable since it serves a lot more than a chat app there (payment, SSO for a lot of other services).
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    When I tried to install WeChat because I was going to travel to China, it kept making me verify my account repeatedly, I guess it was because my phone was rooted...
- kgwgk 5y ago
  > What the person above means is different What person? The first paragraph in ev1’s comment (and the ‘liveness’ reference in the reply) are not about ‘vouching’.
ev1 5y ago
This is for the equivalent of Facebook Messenger or playing a F2P game, not fintech - bank requires even more, and linking a "real name ID" IRL bank account anyway.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Wechat in the mainland actually does do fintech.

hulitu 5y ago

You cannot activate a sim card in Germany without proof of ID

gambiting 5y ago
That's hardly comparable though. No one is taking your voice print and biometric details to match everything you ever say or do against you just to activate a sim card. Not to mention that buying a travel sim card that doesn't require ID is absolutely trivial, or even getting one shipped from any other European country which doesn't have this requirement is simple and easy. Yeah it's a faff, but at least no one will accuse you of being an enemy of the state if you do this like trying to avoid tagging in China.
- francescovv 5y ago
  > No one is taking your voice print and biometric details Some Italian cell operators do. For example, when you are buying a new sim card for Iliad, you do this in front of an automated kiosk where you have to scan your ID, then face camera and say outloud "my name is Insert Your Name Here, and I would like to make a phone service contract with Iliad".
  - gambiting 5y ago
    Ok, I stand corrected then :-) Had no idea this was a thing.
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    Is that for voice printing purposes, or is it in lieu of signing your name on a paper contract?
- rotebeete 5y ago
  > No one is taking your voice print SIM cards are used for transmitting voice in an insecure fashion, so you can't be sure. Some voice codecs are even designed to do something very similiar to fingerprinting voices. > No one is taking your [...] biometric details They were already taken when you had¹ to get the ID in the first place. ¹ The federal republic directly adopted laws from nazi germany requiring ID for every citizen. This law was initially introduced to acquire data about jews and people fit for military service. > to match everything you ever say or do against you just to activate a sim card This was never about surveillance by private entities! Federal agencys can match everything you say based on the fact that the SIM card in your portable bug is linked directly to you. > but at least no one will accuse you of being an enemy of the state if you do this like trying to avoid tagging in China. You can be certain that you end up in a database if you use a foreign SIM card from a non-KYC-country for a long period of time in a residential area. Your only defence is your network provider not cooperating unless forced by law. Germany is being turned into a surveillance state bit by bit and I am fed up by people trying to defend it!

cercatrova 5y ago

Yes, in the US, when signing up for cryptocurrency related services like Coinbase or Binance I believe.

Symbiote 5y ago

I used it to access my medical records from the UK without actually going to the UK. I thought that was reasonable, but it didn't occur to me that reading the numbers was enough to train an AI to reproduce my voice. Now I'm less sure.

maccard 5y ago

Yep, in the UK. My solicitor required it for kyc for a house purchase during the pandemic

cameronh90 5y ago
Nice. Mine required me to send them certified originals and a handwritten declaration through the post. Seems I need a more tech-savvy solicitor...
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Seems you are in fine hands.

StreamBright 5y ago

Yes, I have.

cameronh90 5y ago

I've signed up for several bank accounts lately (due to the 85k insurance limit on UK banks). All of them had this "liveness verification". I think it's actually a legal requirement in the UK if they wish to allow you to sign up online.

wrycoder 5y ago

I called Fidelity in the US about my account, and the agent told me the system was taking a voice print, to be used to verify me the next time I called in.

atatatat 5y ago
Did you tell them to opt you out...?
- wrycoder 5y ago
  My guess is you can't.

alickz 5y ago

I've had to add this exact functionality ("Look left and repeat these numbers") as part of KYC for a mobile app similar to Revolut. This is in conjunction with ID scanning. I think this functionality was necessary as part of complying with KYC laws. And AFAIK WeChat has very similar functionality to Revolut (among much more) so even if the app was non-Chinese (e.g. European), it would need a similar flow.

lobocinza 5y ago

I believe that the average customer anywhere just don't care. I care but nonetheless did go through such a process as it was somewhat required for me to pay taxes on Brazil using 'Gov.br' SSI app.