6 ms·

So I have a family member that suffers from depression. At some point at a party we convinced her to drink some mushroom tea. She was amazingly together for 6 m

So I have a family member that suffers from depression. At some point at a party we convinced her to drink some mushroom tea. She was amazingly together for 6 months after. Magic mushrooms should be legal.

Trasmatta 5y ago
For anyone else reading this and considering it -- you really need to be careful before recommending this for someone with depression. If they are not prepared for the experience it can be deeply destabilizing. Bad trips are real. Shroom tea is generally very strong too. It absolutely can work for depression sometimes, just be careful and intentional, and don't just talk somebody into it who may not be ready for it.
- Milner08 5y ago
  This is critical. You cant/shouldn't just go out on a whim and take shrooms. Either find someone who knows what they're doing and can walk you through it or do your own research and take it slow. Know how much your taking (as best you can) and don't over do it first time. Bad trips _suck_ and aren't going to help anyone.
- mylons 5y ago
  thank you for posting this.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  Completely agree that it's not for everyone, and that those that do try it should thoroughly (and I mean really thoroughly) educate themselves on what they're getting themselves in to and how to maximize their chances of having a good experience. For this I'd recommend "The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide"[1] by James Fadiman as a good start. Erowid[2] and PsychonautWiki[3] are good for experience reports and reference. People with pre-existing health and psychiatric conditions, and young people should be doubly careful. The physical and sometimes psychological effects of some substances can be dangerous, especially when mixed with other drugs (alcohol is a particularly bad one to mix with). Psilocybin mushrooms are some of the safest psychedelics around, but at the very least be absolutely sure you got the right kind (have them identified by experts or grow your own)... and starting with lower doses, in a good set and setting, with someone more experienced than you who you like and trust is prudent. Have some quiet days to integrate the experience afterwards, maybe with a therapist. [1] - https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-Therapeutic-Journeys/dp/1594774021 https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-Therapeut... [2] - https://erowid.org https://erowid.org [3] - https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "People with pre-existing health and psychiatric conditions, and young people should be doubly careful. " And since we are talking about "depressed" people, that should qualify as a preexisting psychiatric condition. The problem is, in most places there are no professional therapists avaiable who can (legally) work with mushrooms. And really, long term depressed persons, often have no one around, they can prepare a trip with.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "in most places there are no professional therapists avaiable who can (legally) work with mushrooms." Despite that, there are underground therapists who will do just that.. and even licensed therapists will sometimes do so. Discretely ask around and you might be pleasantly surprised. "really, long term depressed persons, often have no one around, they can prepare a trip with." There are free, online trip sitters that you can contact here: https://tripsit.me/ https://tripsit.me/ and http://wiki.tripsit.me http://wiki.tripsit.me
    - petercooper 5y ago
      The problem is, in most places there are no professional therapists avaiable who can (legally) work with mushrooms. This is the real sadness to me. So many people seem to start dabbling in various forms of drugs as a way to ail their problems, and if there were qualified people who could help with that (beyond merely dishing out the typical SSRIs, benzos or stimulants) I think a lot of good could be done.
- denkmoon 5y ago
  Set and Setting folks.
- saltyfamiliar 5y ago
  A "microdose" is enough to alleviate symptoms of depression without risking one's psychological stability. There is really no need to take more than ~0.5 grams of cubensis unless the goal is deep insight/profound experience. I completely disagree with the term "microdosing" though. I think this should be considered a standard dosage. Nobody calls a few ml's of cough syrup a "microdose" just because half a liter can cause euphoria, disorientation, etc. Calling this amount of mushroom a "microdose" only furthers the impression that psilocybin is a primarily recreational substance.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Are you under the impression that it isn't primarily a recreational substance?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - container 5y ago
      If you plot out all usage globally, recreational use is probably going to be the most common case. However, being recreational is not a property of the substance itself, so the term you both were using is misleading in that sense.
    - armatav 5y ago
      Are you under the impression that a substances effects are somehow mediated by their legality?
      - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
        Not at all. I just realize that these are primarily used for recreation. It could change - I mean, look at cocaine - and it can be both (opiates, for example).
        armatav 5y ago
- wavefunction 5y ago
  They should probably be taking a sub-threshold dose anyways. The effects are the same and there's no risk of strong hallucinations.
- myrandomcomment 5y ago
  To be clear, this was well planned, in a safe environment, at dusk sitting on the back acre with family and friends and a small dose with constant communication. These type of drugs have been shown time and time again to be massively effective in treating depression, anxiety and PTSD. It is a crime that ultra conservative socialty morals have prevented a more in depth study of their use. The fact of the matter is we treat our vets with a cocktail of drugs for PTSD that have major side effects and provide little relief. It was my experience and the experience of serval people I know that had PTSD that the use of magic mushrooms provided a substantial and sustained relief.
refurb 5y ago
I think we give magic mushrooms FDA approved based on your anecdote.
- grayhatter 5y ago
  This isn't the first time I've heard this. There's plenty of other sources that seem to corroborate this anecdote; and let's all not forget. The plural of anecdote is evidence. All that said, actually waiting for FDA approval does seem a lot less risky
  - carlmr 5y ago
    >The plural of anecdote is evidence. While I find the anecdotes compelling. I would assume that to make multiple anecdotes evidence you'd have to at least register these anecdotes systematically, otherwise you only hear the extreme ones that people like to tell.
    - grayhatter 5y ago
      Yeah, that's my bad. I meant to say data, not evidence. But you'll note that I didn't weight the quality of it. Anecdotes (plural) are data points, interpretation of them is left to whomever wants to use said data. A temperature sensor that you know isn't desiged to work at subzero is reporting -30 consistently. It may be -40 or -20 but you know it's below zero. Someone reporting symptom relief from depression, (which is something who's most severe symptoms are by definition subjective,) after taking psilocybin is a good data point. It without a doubt has helped. Why, how, and discovery of caveats notwithstanding; it's something worthy of understanding, and with anecdotes (plural) consideration for use * . Just because the picture is incomplete, doesn't devalue the existing data points. Which is the thing I was trying to push back on. My data points may be weak, or noisy. But my data points are worth more than your scepticism. Full disclosure, I'm a card carrying sceptic saying that. I always think there's more to be understood, but merely devaluing the data points you currently have is not the way to go about it. Ask questions, don't raise complaints. * : some restrictions apply
  - corobo 5y ago
ferryman 5y ago
I think that there is always a survivorship bias with such anecdotes. We mostly hear about stories of people who have had good experiences with it - they share the recommendation to others too. On the other hand people who have had bad trips are less likely to talk about it.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "On the other hand people who have had bad trips are less likely to talk about it." Depends, it can also go the other way around. I remember from my teenage years, that mostly the horror trips from some persons, with the scary anecdotes of people who stayed on the trip and never came of it and stayed in some asylum, were openly shared. One of the reasons, I was very cautious and never did a mushroom trip at that time and especially not in a potential bad environments like parties, focused on drinking.
  - Leparamour 5y ago
    That was my experience as well. In my later teenage years there was a pretty successful movie around where the protagonist develops schizophrenia after using LSD one single time and his subsequential descent into "madness". That scared me off psychedelics for decades.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      Sounds like "Das weiße Rauschen"? (The white noise, but I think he did mushrooms) If so, I saw that one too ...
      - Leparamour 5y ago
        That's the one and you're right, according to wikipedia they were doing magic mushrooms not LSD. Great and intense movie. So far the only time where I can say with certainty that a movie changed my life.
- 127 5y ago
  To prove survivor-ship bias, you would have to show that somehow either bad or good experiences never gain visibility, which to me doesn't seem to be the case at all. With natural medicine there's always people who point out the downsides, but with products made by the pharmacological industry, there's always those who defend SSRIs. Is it even possible to gather some actual data on this issue without obvious bias either way? The medical industry seems to have obvious motive to downplay any natural remedy as it doesn't make them money, and actively competes with their own products. On the other hand what motive would the average person have to unreasonably hype up things like the healing power of shrooms?
271828182846 5y ago
Good for that person. But I'm not sure if that was "smart" to convince somebody with mental problems to drink mushroom tea at a party ... that's recipe for disaster.
rednerrus 5y ago
Counterpoint, I took it one time and it set my mental health back 5 years. It took that long for me to wrap my head around what happened and get back to feeling secure.

Trasmatta 5y ago

For anyone else reading this and considering it -- you really need to be careful before recommending this for someone with depression. If they are not prepared for the experience it can be deeply destabilizing. Bad trips are real. Shroom tea is generally very strong too. It absolutely can work for depression sometimes, just be careful and intentional, and don't just talk somebody into it who may not be ready for it.

Milner08 5y ago
This is critical. You cant/shouldn't just go out on a whim and take shrooms. Either find someone who knows what they're doing and can walk you through it or do your own research and take it slow. Know how much your taking (as best you can) and don't over do it first time. Bad trips _suck_ and aren't going to help anyone.
mylons 5y ago
thank you for posting this.
pmoriarty 5y ago
Completely agree that it's not for everyone, and that those that do try it should thoroughly (and I mean really thoroughly) educate themselves on what they're getting themselves in to and how to maximize their chances of having a good experience. For this I'd recommend "The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide"[1] by James Fadiman as a good start. Erowid[2] and PsychonautWiki[3] are good for experience reports and reference. People with pre-existing health and psychiatric conditions, and young people should be doubly careful. The physical and sometimes psychological effects of some substances can be dangerous, especially when mixed with other drugs (alcohol is a particularly bad one to mix with). Psilocybin mushrooms are some of the safest psychedelics around, but at the very least be absolutely sure you got the right kind (have them identified by experts or grow your own)... and starting with lower doses, in a good set and setting, with someone more experienced than you who you like and trust is prudent. Have some quiet days to integrate the experience afterwards, maybe with a therapist. [1] - https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-Therapeutic-Journeys/dp/1594774021 https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-Therapeut... [2] - https://erowid.org https://erowid.org [3] - https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "People with pre-existing health and psychiatric conditions, and young people should be doubly careful. " And since we are talking about "depressed" people, that should qualify as a preexisting psychiatric condition. The problem is, in most places there are no professional therapists avaiable who can (legally) work with mushrooms. And really, long term depressed persons, often have no one around, they can prepare a trip with.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "in most places there are no professional therapists avaiable who can (legally) work with mushrooms." Despite that, there are underground therapists who will do just that.. and even licensed therapists will sometimes do so. Discretely ask around and you might be pleasantly surprised. "really, long term depressed persons, often have no one around, they can prepare a trip with." There are free, online trip sitters that you can contact here: https://tripsit.me/ https://tripsit.me/ and http://wiki.tripsit.me http://wiki.tripsit.me
  - petercooper 5y ago
    The problem is, in most places there are no professional therapists avaiable who can (legally) work with mushrooms. This is the real sadness to me. So many people seem to start dabbling in various forms of drugs as a way to ail their problems, and if there were qualified people who could help with that (beyond merely dishing out the typical SSRIs, benzos or stimulants) I think a lot of good could be done.
denkmoon 5y ago
Set and Setting folks.
saltyfamiliar 5y ago
A "microdose" is enough to alleviate symptoms of depression without risking one's psychological stability. There is really no need to take more than ~0.5 grams of cubensis unless the goal is deep insight/profound experience. I completely disagree with the term "microdosing" though. I think this should be considered a standard dosage. Nobody calls a few ml's of cough syrup a "microdose" just because half a liter can cause euphoria, disorientation, etc. Calling this amount of mushroom a "microdose" only furthers the impression that psilocybin is a primarily recreational substance.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  Are you under the impression that it isn't primarily a recreational substance?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - container 5y ago
    If you plot out all usage globally, recreational use is probably going to be the most common case. However, being recreational is not a property of the substance itself, so the term you both were using is misleading in that sense.
  - armatav 5y ago
    Are you under the impression that a substances effects are somehow mediated by their legality?
    - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
      Not at all. I just realize that these are primarily used for recreation. It could change - I mean, look at cocaine - and it can be both (opiates, for example).
      - armatav 5y ago
wavefunction 5y ago
They should probably be taking a sub-threshold dose anyways. The effects are the same and there's no risk of strong hallucinations.
myrandomcomment 5y ago
To be clear, this was well planned, in a safe environment, at dusk sitting on the back acre with family and friends and a small dose with constant communication. These type of drugs have been shown time and time again to be massively effective in treating depression, anxiety and PTSD. It is a crime that ultra conservative socialty morals have prevented a more in depth study of their use. The fact of the matter is we treat our vets with a cocktail of drugs for PTSD that have major side effects and provide little relief. It was my experience and the experience of serval people I know that had PTSD that the use of magic mushrooms provided a substantial and sustained relief.

refurb 5y ago

I think we give magic mushrooms FDA approved based on your anecdote.

grayhatter 5y ago
This isn't the first time I've heard this. There's plenty of other sources that seem to corroborate this anecdote; and let's all not forget. The plural of anecdote is evidence. All that said, actually waiting for FDA approval does seem a lot less risky
- carlmr 5y ago
  >The plural of anecdote is evidence. While I find the anecdotes compelling. I would assume that to make multiple anecdotes evidence you'd have to at least register these anecdotes systematically, otherwise you only hear the extreme ones that people like to tell.
  - grayhatter 5y ago
    Yeah, that's my bad. I meant to say data, not evidence. But you'll note that I didn't weight the quality of it. Anecdotes (plural) are data points, interpretation of them is left to whomever wants to use said data. A temperature sensor that you know isn't desiged to work at subzero is reporting -30 consistently. It may be -40 or -20 but you know it's below zero. Someone reporting symptom relief from depression, (which is something who's most severe symptoms are by definition subjective,) after taking psilocybin is a good data point. It without a doubt has helped. Why, how, and discovery of caveats notwithstanding; it's something worthy of understanding, and with anecdotes (plural) consideration for use * . Just because the picture is incomplete, doesn't devalue the existing data points. Which is the thing I was trying to push back on. My data points may be weak, or noisy. But my data points are worth more than your scepticism. Full disclosure, I'm a card carrying sceptic saying that. I always think there's more to be understood, but merely devaluing the data points you currently have is not the way to go about it. Ask questions, don't raise complaints. * : some restrictions apply
- corobo 5y ago

ferryman 5y ago

I think that there is always a survivorship bias with such anecdotes. We mostly hear about stories of people who have had good experiences with it - they share the recommendation to others too. On the other hand people who have had bad trips are less likely to talk about it.

hutzlibu 5y ago
"On the other hand people who have had bad trips are less likely to talk about it." Depends, it can also go the other way around. I remember from my teenage years, that mostly the horror trips from some persons, with the scary anecdotes of people who stayed on the trip and never came of it and stayed in some asylum, were openly shared. One of the reasons, I was very cautious and never did a mushroom trip at that time and especially not in a potential bad environments like parties, focused on drinking.
- Leparamour 5y ago
  That was my experience as well. In my later teenage years there was a pretty successful movie around where the protagonist develops schizophrenia after using LSD one single time and his subsequential descent into "madness". That scared me off psychedelics for decades.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    Sounds like "Das weiße Rauschen"? (The white noise, but I think he did mushrooms) If so, I saw that one too ...
    - Leparamour 5y ago
      That's the one and you're right, according to wikipedia they were doing magic mushrooms not LSD. Great and intense movie. So far the only time where I can say with certainty that a movie changed my life.
127 5y ago
To prove survivor-ship bias, you would have to show that somehow either bad or good experiences never gain visibility, which to me doesn't seem to be the case at all. With natural medicine there's always people who point out the downsides, but with products made by the pharmacological industry, there's always those who defend SSRIs. Is it even possible to gather some actual data on this issue without obvious bias either way? The medical industry seems to have obvious motive to downplay any natural remedy as it doesn't make them money, and actively competes with their own products. On the other hand what motive would the average person have to unreasonably hype up things like the healing power of shrooms?

271828182846 5y ago

Good for that person. But I'm not sure if that was "smart" to convince somebody with mental problems to drink mushroom tea at a party ... that's recipe for disaster.

rednerrus 5y ago

Counterpoint, I took it one time and it set my mental health back 5 years. It took that long for me to wrap my head around what happened and get back to feeling secure.