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This is an extremely narrow-minded and potentially harmful view. For health reasons that I'm not going to discuss online, my partner has been unable to get the

This is an extremely narrow-minded and potentially harmful view. For health reasons that I'm not going to discuss online, my partner has been unable to get the vaccine. The amount of people who have stopped wearing masks in our apartment, at the grocery store, etc. has really started to increase where we live. Knowing that these people are still able to get infected with the delta variant and easily spread it is terrifying. She desperately wants to get the vaccine but can't, so every day is more and more terrifying for her. I have the vaccine but I'm still scared to go out without a mask on because I don't want to get it from somebody who isn't wearing a mask and spread it to her, so I'm not even able to "resume living normally". I know it might not seem fair to you to put the world on hold for a few people who can't get the vaccine for one reason or another, but you also need to know that it is not always "by choice" and that the price may be people's lives.

refurb 5y ago
How is that view narrow minded? Your partner is a very small group of exceptions to the OP statement.
- TranquilMarmot 5y ago
  It just irks me that the OP statement was worded in a way that implied that anybody who isn't vaccinated basically deserves to get infected and die. Lack of empathy for people who may be in rough situations.
gpt5 5y ago
To be fair, the Vaccine isn't really that effective against spreading the Delta variant. Data from Israel shows only 64% effectiveness (https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-is-less-effective-against-delta-variant-israeli-data-show-11625572796 https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-is-les...). Luckily it is still 94% effective in preventing serious illness. What I'm trying to say is that even with 100% vaccination rate, it's not clear that new variants wouldn't spread around the population and continue to infect everyone around us.
- Shank 5y ago
  Statistically, a 60% efficacious vaccine, if the only available option, would have been a welcome sign of relief. Remember that the influenza seasonal vaccines are only about that effective, and they do a significant amount of good. 94% is more than we were asking for and expecting. Seasonal influenza is a big deal but not a total crisis for a reason. It’s reasonable to say that a moderately effective vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 significantly decreases the chances of an exponential growth fueled outbreak or total Wild West mutation.
- 71a54xd 5y ago
  Yes, that's the point of the vaccine. Even if you get <insert variant here> you have a far lower likelihood of being hospitalized. Check mate science, move on. Living in fear of the unknown is a fools errand. This is how you play into the hand of the insane people who think covid was a "government plant" to sow compliance lmao.
Shank 5y ago
I sincerely hope that she’s able to get the vaccine somehow. I hope that we can convince people to get vaccinated too. I hope that we can stop the pandemic with as little loss of life as possible. I really personally hope that your partner stays safe and isn’t infected throughout this. That being said, many people are treating it as a political issue, or feel the risk is low enough for them that they don’t need to get vaccinated. Many people have never taken the pandemic seriously, and still don’t. We need solutions that either inoculate people who are eligible or can convince people to voluntarily get inoculated, because the economic effects of lockdowns and other pandemic controls are far too destructive to apply unequally or over a long period of time. The efficacy of things like lockdowns also goes down over time. If we want these tools to work for future outbreaks and pandemics, we can’t always use them. I sincerely hope your partner is able to stay safe. I hope that you can find a way through this together. Unfortunately, it’s just extremely difficult to get people to collectively work on this problem. In a way, news articles like this don’t help. We should really reserve alarms for quantifiable metrics and risks, not hypotheticals. It just adds fuel to the fire for many, and that isn’t helping get people vaccinated faster.
71a54xd 5y ago
Harmful to your circumstances. I don't live with someone who is immunocompromised and I did my part by receiving the vaccine and wearing a mask in areas of high density. As a result, I'm going back to as normal a life as possible because I enjoy living. And again, I acknowledge the risks, I lived a few blocks from Mt. Sinai West where a literal semi-trailer was used to contain dead bodies. > This is an extremely narrow-minded and potentially harmful view. One could argue the same of your response. > I have the vaccine but I'm still scared to go out without a mask on because I don't want to get it from somebody who isn't wearing a mask and spread it to her, so I'm not even able to "resume living normally". Please explain how this is my problem or why I should be concerned for your irrational fear. This is a statement that appears to both highly entitled and rooted in emotion - not reason or evidence. I wish the best for you and your wife. To be clear, I'm not a political person and don't intend any of my arguments here to be perceived as such.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  > Please explain how this is my problem or why I should be concerned for your irrational fear. Put simply, it's not irrational.
  - 71a54xd 5y ago
    TranquilMarmot given your circumstances, have you considered moving to a remote location where you are highly unlikely to ever encounter humans again? If you're looking for a solution, that's one potential option. However, emotionally charged arguments tend to lack any trace of an actual solution. Imparting the challenges of your life on others unfortunately probably isn't going to have effective outcomes. I'm going to sleep now.
    - crooked-v 5y ago
      You may want to look at usernames before responding.
    - TranquilMarmot 5y ago
      It's been considered and would be ideal for us, yes. But that isn't a very feasible solution at the moment due to financial constraints, needs to be near medical facilities, etc.
dehrmann 5y ago
> I'm still scared to go out without a mask on because I don't want to get it from somebody who isn't wearing a mask Unless you're wearing a respirator, your mask probably isn't that effective at stopping you from getting infected, especially with more contagious variants. This is a bit hand-wavy, but you can see from infection data just how relatively ineffective masks are compared to vaccines; SF was heavily masked last summer, and despite lots of closures, daily cases were still significantly higher (and growing) a year ago compared to today. With the caveat that it depends a lot on where you are, you're safer without a mask and the ~50% immunity the average US community has than with a mask any time in the past year. > I know it might not seem fair to you to put the world on hold...the price may be people's lives. Putting the world on hold for another 9 months also takes away lives in a less obvious way. I do get where you're coming from, it makes sense, and it's a shitty situation.
- TranquilMarmot 5y ago
  Yeah, there really is no perfect solution to any of it. It has been very frustrating to see the "people who have not gotten the vaccine deserve to get infected and potentially die" rhetoric get spread online. Like yeah, I understand that things should go back to normal. We don't have to be assholes about it though.
taylodl 5y ago
I hear you. I live in a so-called "purple" state where the vaccination rate is 50%. The state law is to wear a mask in public if you're not vaccinated. It's based on an honor system. Almost no one is wearing a mask any longer. We're having 4th of July parades, fireworks with thousands in attendance - things are back to "normal" and no one is wearing a mask. As others have commented I think there's going to be hell to pay this Winter. We'll see. As for me, I'm fully vaccinated and I only wear my mask to the grocery store, figuring that's where everybody has to go to get food including those who through no fault of their own aren't able to get vaccinated. Otherwise I'm pretty much "back to normal" too (well, almost - I see no reason to go to restaurants and movies anymore, there's something that changed during the lockdown).

refurb 5y ago

How is that view narrow minded? Your partner is a very small group of exceptions to the OP statement.

TranquilMarmot 5y ago
It just irks me that the OP statement was worded in a way that implied that anybody who isn't vaccinated basically deserves to get infected and die. Lack of empathy for people who may be in rough situations.

gpt5 5y ago

To be fair, the Vaccine isn't really that effective against spreading the Delta variant. Data from Israel shows only 64% effectiveness (https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-is-less-effective-against-delta-variant-israeli-data-show-11625572796 https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-is-les...). Luckily it is still 94% effective in preventing serious illness. What I'm trying to say is that even with 100% vaccination rate, it's not clear that new variants wouldn't spread around the population and continue to infect everyone around us.

Shank 5y ago
Statistically, a 60% efficacious vaccine, if the only available option, would have been a welcome sign of relief. Remember that the influenza seasonal vaccines are only about that effective, and they do a significant amount of good. 94% is more than we were asking for and expecting. Seasonal influenza is a big deal but not a total crisis for a reason. It’s reasonable to say that a moderately effective vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 significantly decreases the chances of an exponential growth fueled outbreak or total Wild West mutation.
71a54xd 5y ago
Yes, that's the point of the vaccine. Even if you get <insert variant here> you have a far lower likelihood of being hospitalized. Check mate science, move on. Living in fear of the unknown is a fools errand. This is how you play into the hand of the insane people who think covid was a "government plant" to sow compliance lmao.

Shank 5y ago

I sincerely hope that she’s able to get the vaccine somehow. I hope that we can convince people to get vaccinated too. I hope that we can stop the pandemic with as little loss of life as possible. I really personally hope that your partner stays safe and isn’t infected throughout this. That being said, many people are treating it as a political issue, or feel the risk is low enough for them that they don’t need to get vaccinated. Many people have never taken the pandemic seriously, and still don’t. We need solutions that either inoculate people who are eligible or can convince people to voluntarily get inoculated, because the economic effects of lockdowns and other pandemic controls are far too destructive to apply unequally or over a long period of time. The efficacy of things like lockdowns also goes down over time. If we want these tools to work for future outbreaks and pandemics, we can’t always use them. I sincerely hope your partner is able to stay safe. I hope that you can find a way through this together. Unfortunately, it’s just extremely difficult to get people to collectively work on this problem. In a way, news articles like this don’t help. We should really reserve alarms for quantifiable metrics and risks, not hypotheticals. It just adds fuel to the fire for many, and that isn’t helping get people vaccinated faster.

71a54xd 5y ago

Harmful to your circumstances. I don't live with someone who is immunocompromised and I did my part by receiving the vaccine and wearing a mask in areas of high density. As a result, I'm going back to as normal a life as possible because I enjoy living. And again, I acknowledge the risks, I lived a few blocks from Mt. Sinai West where a literal semi-trailer was used to contain dead bodies. > This is an extremely narrow-minded and potentially harmful view. One could argue the same of your response. > I have the vaccine but I'm still scared to go out without a mask on because I don't want to get it from somebody who isn't wearing a mask and spread it to her, so I'm not even able to "resume living normally". Please explain how this is my problem or why I should be concerned for your irrational fear. This is a statement that appears to both highly entitled and rooted in emotion - not reason or evidence. I wish the best for you and your wife. To be clear, I'm not a political person and don't intend any of my arguments here to be perceived as such.

crooked-v 5y ago
> Please explain how this is my problem or why I should be concerned for your irrational fear. Put simply, it's not irrational.
- 71a54xd 5y ago
  TranquilMarmot given your circumstances, have you considered moving to a remote location where you are highly unlikely to ever encounter humans again? If you're looking for a solution, that's one potential option. However, emotionally charged arguments tend to lack any trace of an actual solution. Imparting the challenges of your life on others unfortunately probably isn't going to have effective outcomes. I'm going to sleep now.
  - crooked-v 5y ago
    You may want to look at usernames before responding.
  - TranquilMarmot 5y ago
    It's been considered and would be ideal for us, yes. But that isn't a very feasible solution at the moment due to financial constraints, needs to be near medical facilities, etc.

dehrmann 5y ago

> I'm still scared to go out without a mask on because I don't want to get it from somebody who isn't wearing a mask Unless you're wearing a respirator, your mask probably isn't that effective at stopping you from getting infected, especially with more contagious variants. This is a bit hand-wavy, but you can see from infection data just how relatively ineffective masks are compared to vaccines; SF was heavily masked last summer, and despite lots of closures, daily cases were still significantly higher (and growing) a year ago compared to today. With the caveat that it depends a lot on where you are, you're safer without a mask and the ~50% immunity the average US community has than with a mask any time in the past year. > I know it might not seem fair to you to put the world on hold...the price may be people's lives. Putting the world on hold for another 9 months also takes away lives in a less obvious way. I do get where you're coming from, it makes sense, and it's a shitty situation.

TranquilMarmot 5y ago
Yeah, there really is no perfect solution to any of it. It has been very frustrating to see the "people who have not gotten the vaccine deserve to get infected and potentially die" rhetoric get spread online. Like yeah, I understand that things should go back to normal. We don't have to be assholes about it though.

taylodl 5y ago

I hear you. I live in a so-called "purple" state where the vaccination rate is 50%. The state law is to wear a mask in public if you're not vaccinated. It's based on an honor system. Almost no one is wearing a mask any longer. We're having 4th of July parades, fireworks with thousands in attendance - things are back to "normal" and no one is wearing a mask. As others have commented I think there's going to be hell to pay this Winter. We'll see. As for me, I'm fully vaccinated and I only wear my mask to the grocery store, figuring that's where everybody has to go to get food including those who through no fault of their own aren't able to get vaccinated. Otherwise I'm pretty much "back to normal" too (well, almost - I see no reason to go to restaurants and movies anymore, there's something that changed during the lockdown).